Many of you are too young too know much about Keith Kelly. He won his NCAA title with a 54 second last 400 meters on the XC course in brutally cold conditions. Dude was a tough runner.
Many of you are too young too know much about Keith Kelly. He won his NCAA title with a 54 second last 400 meters on the XC course in brutally cold conditions. Dude was a tough runner.
You got it wrote:
Ritz won NCAA off like 6 weeks of real training. He won every race he ran that year. I think he only raced Pre-nats, regionals and NCAAs.
He's an XC beast. Look at his high school career. However, if we abide by the rules of the thread, Ritz was not in great shape when he outkicked Ryan Hall that year. Chances are in peak shape he probably could have contended for the win.
Very true statement about Ritz.
Based off the OP, I am under the assumption we are supposed to take all runners for the shape they were in that day.
Lone Wolf wrote:
Many of you are too young too know much about Keith Kelly. He won his NCAA title with a 54 second last 400 meters on the XC course in brutally cold conditions. Dude was a tough runner.
I'm guessing this is true. Kelly has had major injury issues since he won his title, and hasn't had a big impact post NCAA.
Pre (If he ran)
Chelenga
Boaz
Rupp
Lalang
Bairu
Ritz
Torres
McDougal
Kelly
Rohatinsky
break it up wrote:
28:47. Beat Torres and Cragg by 20-25 seconds.
It's pretty much common knowledge that the course was short the year Boaz won. His margin of victory still shows how good he was, but his time on a 10k would have been lower 29's.
If you take into account if they were racing, they would all be facing tougher competition than they did on the day. For example, these guys wouldn't have let Lawi open up a 25 second gap. It would come down to who went out suicidal and trying to break each other, and who sat back the first 5k and made a move. Some of those guys up front would get broken and be moving backwards.
I think Sammy would break someone like Lawi, and Boaz, but would still be hurting coming in. Ritz probably would have stuck his nose in it, but backed off if he realized the pace was suicidal. Rupp would have run his own race. Kelly had a good kick, but it would probably only pick him up a few spots.
1. Rupp
2. Chelanga
3. Ritz
4. Bairu
5. Torres
6. Kelly
7. McDougal
8. Lalang
9. Rohat
10. Boaz
I could be wrong about who would get broken, how badly and who would have really strong closing Ks, but I could see this happening.
I do agree that some of the runner's up would probably beat a fair amount of champions if they were added to this race and they raced smart. I couldnt see a guy like Hall, Kiplagat or Derrick getting beaten by all of these guys.
How many times do I have to slap you guys upside the head? Ritz was in mediocre shape in '02. He would not have contended at all in this fantasy race. You seem to be going by what he did AFTER going pro. At Colorado he was ALWAYS behind Torres. Boaz, Torres, Rupp, Chelanga, Lalang, Bairu, and McDougal would finish ahead of Ritz.
Correction- the Ritz of '03 was in mediocre shape.
Rupp
Chelanga (it would be damn close)
Lawi Lalang
Boaz
Jorge Torres
Ritz
Josh McDougal
Simon Bairu
Josh Rohatinsky
Keith Kelly
Note: Emphasizing this is Ritz's '03 shape, Boaz's '01 shape and Bairu's '05 shape.
It isnt that i think Ritz or Bairu were neccesarily in better shape than some guys, but I think saavy racing, experiance and pure grit would play into their hands. I think a good 3 or 4 guys would hammer the pace because they were in such good shape, but not all of them would be able to hold on and other guys would be walking them down in the final 800m.
ritz was third at world junior xc, and so if healthy for a long period of time, he would win, but he was not and so you have to put him below Lalang, who's never been pushed yet, Rupp, who toyed with Chelanga, and Chelanga, who ran 27:08.
Think it's worth mentioning that Derrick's time last week is #3 all-time on Lavern Gibson -- behind only Chelanga (2009) and Lalang. Weather's obviously a factor in late November, but still -- one of only 3 guys to crack 29 minutes on that course is pretty special.
I agree with An educated person's list, except would put Rohatinsky last. And Derrick would probably be about half way up that list too.
An educated person wrote:
Rupp
Chelanga (it would be damn close)
Lawi Lalang
Boaz
Jorge Torres
Ritz
Josh McDougal
Simon Bairu
Josh Rohatinsky
Keith Kelly
Note: Emphasizing this is Ritz's '03 shape, Boaz's '01 shape and Bairu's '05 shape.
I like this list if the course is dry and running fast.
If it's muddy then I'd go:
Bairu
Everyone else.
You got it wrote:
Ritz won NCAA off like 6 weeks of real training. He won every race he ran that year. I think he only raced Pre-nats, regionals and NCAAs.
He's an XC beast. Look at his high school career. However, if we abide by the rules of the thread, Ritz was not in great shape when he outkicked Ryan Hall that year. Chances are in peak shape he probably could have contended for the win.
this is my favorite memory of Ritz... from August of 02' to like September of 03' he really didn't run at all... I remember reading that he was running like 10 minutes a day in August.
How he won, still boggles my mind.. He ran himself into a coma cause he was lifeless for like half an hour after the race...
We need winning times, and margins of victory
Levins would win!!
Whoops sorry wrong forum.
Future Lawi #1
Rupp in his best shape #2
Chelenga #3
Bairu#4
Ritz#5 Torres #6
How in the world did rohatinsky win in 06???
Maybe they all bonk and Rohatinsky would win like he did in 06
Boaz, Chelanga, Torres (underrated), Rupp, Bairu, Ritz (not top form when gutted win)...
I'd guess that the conditions would be crappy, the frontrunners would burn each other out, the tough runners would hang on for dear life, and it would come down to a kick. Thus, Keith Kelly FTW!
You forgot to include Lalang ahead of Ritz. Ritz finishes in the bottom half of these 10 individuals.