2 runners die today @ Philly Marathon

fgdgdfhfd wrote:

virginia runner wrote:

any more details on these guys? What their level of training and was? I think stats should be put out there to show the general public that marathons can be dangerous if you're not properly trained.

On a news piece i saw they said the 21 year old was taken to the hospital around 9:30. The race started at 7:00 so, if he was running the full, he was in pretty good shape.

Except that he ran the half.

Tooooo SOooooon ^

hypertrophic cardiomyopathy

stfu. such a lack of overall understanding astounds me. go join the army and go airborne. 'c the world'

Ditto. I. verz is a douche.

BradW wrote:

fgdgdfhfd wrote:

On a news piece i saw they said the 21 year old was taken to the hospital around 9:30. The race started at 7:00 so, if he was running the full, he was in pretty good shape.

Except that he ran the half.

Hence the "if."

curiositiologist wrote:

Condolences to the families.

I find it interesting that it's almost always men who die in marathons, even though 40-50% of a marathon field is women. I don't remember ever reading about a woman dying during a marathon.

There have been occasions where females have died while running in a marathon.

Cynthia Lucero, a TNT charity runner, died at the 2002 Boston Marathon from hyponaetremia (excess fluid consumption).

Can't recall any if any female heart attacks during marathons though.

Bell Lapper wrote:

I've noticed that a lot of these deaths happen either right at the finish line or shortly before it. My theory is that its due to the extra stress of sprinting in the final few yards of a marathon which does the damage. I coast in for that reason. I give up a few places but I figure its cheap insurance.

You are correct about a lot of deaths happening very near the finish line. I always like to kick as best I can at the mile 26 sign just to show the marathon that is hasn't beaten me. Now I may hesitate to do that and just maintain my pace. I guess I am getting old.

sub3over40 wrote:

Bell Lapper wrote:

I've noticed that a lot of these deaths happen either right at the finish line or shortly before it. My theory is that its due to the extra stress of sprinting in the final few yards of a marathon which does the damage. I coast in for that reason. I give up a few places but I figure its cheap insurance.

You are correct about a lot of deaths happening very near the finish line. I always like to kick as best I can at the mile 26 sign just to show the marathon that is hasn't beaten me. Now I may hesitate to do that and just maintain my pace. I guess I am getting old.

I spoke to a very famous running doctor about this. He said dying in a race is rare but if you do these three things you greatly reduce your chances of death during the marathon:

1) don't consume much caffeine before the race and none during

2) take a baby aspirin before the race

3) if you are going to kick, pick up the pace gradually around mile 25 and remain in control. When you kick hard at the end of the marathon, you release tons of adrenaline and your heart can't handle it. You might gain 5-10 seconds over that last 400 meters by sprinting, but if you just barely pick up the pace from 1 mile out you gain that time and perhaps more in a much safer manner.

So sad wrote:

I knew the 40 year old. He was a very experienced and very, very fit athlete, as well as a super nice guy.

I ran the half yesterday, took a shower and got back to the course to cheer on other runners. Went to the 13mi mark (or 26.1). When I got there they were already doing CPR. This was a bit after 3 hours. From your statement I understand that he was running the Marathon, meaning he must have been en route to run around 3h. I know many Letsrunner consider that mediocre but put into perspective this is the Top 2% or so.

I knew what was happening. Runners hardly ever survive if they get collapse and need to get CPR at or near the finish line but I don't think people around me had any idea what was going on.

Sad day.

sub3over40 wrote:

Bell Lapper wrote:

I've noticed that a lot of these deaths happen either right at the finish line or shortly before it. My theory is that its due to the extra stress of sprinting in the final few yards of a marathon which does the damage. I coast in for that reason. I give up a few places but I figure its cheap insurance.

You are correct about a lot of deaths happening very near the finish line. I always like to kick as best I can at the mile 26 sign just to show the marathon that is hasn't beaten me. Now I may hesitate to do that and just maintain my pace. I guess I am getting old.

I wonder whether the new tiered registration policies of the Boston Athletic Association are possibly contributing to these deaths of near 3 hr flat runners near the finish line. No longer are they running just to meet 3:10 or 3:15, but now they are induced to try to sprint at the end beyond their limits to attain BQ-5 minutes or BQ-10 minutes to better improve their chances of getting into Boston the following year.

This 40 year old runner who died at mile 26 in Philadelphia and 35 year old Will Caviness who died similarly at Chicago in October were both on that time trajectory and were in good health.

Did you happen to see whether they used a defibrillator/AED in addition to performing CPR?

It's my understanding that many of the sudden cardiac deaths in marathons (particularly in younger runners) are the result of arrhythmias, rather than arterial blockages. CPR does almost nothing to induce a heart whose electrical signaling has gone haywire to "reboot" properly, while that's basically what AEDs are built to do.

They've successfully used AEDs to revive runners in Philly in the past, and I know they have mobile units on the course.

If this was happening at the three-hour mark it would also have been within an hour or so of the collapse of the 21-year-old student who died just after crossing the finish line for the half-marathon.

What a difficult and terrible morning for the emergency medical staff.

Bell Lapper wrote:

I've noticed that a lot of these deaths happen either right at the finish line or shortly before it. My theory is that its due to the extra stress of sprinting in the final few yards of a marathon which does the damage. I coast in for that reason. I give up a few places but I figure its cheap insurance.

sub3over40 wrote:

You are correct about a lot of deaths happening very near the finish line. I always like to kick as best I can at the mile 26 sign just to show the marathon that is hasn't beaten me. Now I may hesitate to do that and just maintain my pace. I guess I am getting old.

This just proves the extra "0.2" is unnecessary (and dangerous). We need to shorten the marathon to 26.0 miles to prevent this problem.

Also from Philly wrote:

Did you happen to see whether they used a defibrillator/AED in addition to performing CPR?

I am not sure. They had these mobile ambulance carts (like a golf cart), but it appeared to my as the CPR was performed manually. However, I am no expert.

It took a long time (maybe 10min) until the real ambulance was there.

That's the poouusssiest thing ever. Man up and grow a pair. Start kicking with a mile to go.

Bell Lapper wrote:

I've noticed that a lot of these deaths happen either right at the finish line or shortly before it. My theory is that its due to the extra stress of sprinting in the final few yards of a marathon which does the damage. I coast in for that reason. I give up a few places but I figure its cheap insurance.

You probably would have been able to tell if they had used an AED (automated external defibrillator). For one, you would have seen them apply the chest contact pads to the downed runner. This would have been hard to miss -- they would have needed to cut his shirt off in order to get the pads on.

You also would have seen the emergency medical personnel move back momentarily from the runner's body momentarily so that the AED could deliver its impulse.

If it looked to you as though they were continuously delivering CPR, then an AED probably didn't arrive on the scene until the actual ambulance got there. Given that you said it took about 10 minutes for a full-fledged ambulance to arrive, that would be outside the optimum window for AED effectiveness.

Also from Philly wrote:

You probably would have been able to tell if they had used an AED (automated external defibrillator). For one, you would have seen them apply the chest contact pads to the downed runner. This would have been hard to miss -- they would have needed to cut his shirt off in order to get the pads on.

You also would have seen the emergency medical personnel move back momentarily from the runner's body momentarily so that the AED could deliver its impulse.

If it looked to you as though they were continuously delivering CPR, then an AED probably didn't arrive on the scene until the actual ambulance got there. Given that you said it took about 10 minutes for a full-fledged ambulance to arrive, that would be outside the optimum window for AED effectiveness.

Again - not an expert in this field. But based on what you describe I would say that there was no AED.

Augh, that's a shame.

Thanks for the info.

Azaleas wrote:

Anytime you get 25000+ people together performing rigorous exercise, there's a good chance someone's going to die. This is the reality now that marathons have become so popular. You could be as stringent as you want on fitness, and there's still a reasonable chance that people are going to die.

Condolences to the runners' family and friends... What is written above is true. Most people who die at a race probably have some underlying condition that becomes evident under the stress of racing.