Tom McArdle - 2nd coming of Bob Kempainen?

Tom,

Hansons is a great club, The Oregon Project has had some success, The Farm Team has a couple studs.

But if I were you, Id take the best cash contract I could get, rent a cheap apartment above EBA's with one of your postgrad buddies, pump up the altitude tent, and keep showing up for practice every day at 3:15.

If it aint broke...

Buddha,

There are plenty of NCAA resumes just as good as McArdle\'s, or in many cases better. I think you put too much stock in what you see of his training log. It\'s impressive to most people, but pretty much on par relative to other All-Americans. Many do it in different ways; there are many ways to become good in this sport.

When I say \"plenty of guys,\" I\'m talking about the guys like Robison, Tegenkamp, Watson, Slattery, Sage, Lincoln, etc. These guys are the ones you don\'t hear much about (yet), but I see them getting REAL good. Why? Combination of:

1. Ability to show up in big races

2. Cross country ability

3. Track ability

4. Kick

5. Range

6. Resistance to injuries

Now, McArdle is a great runner; I don\'t dispute that for a second. What I AM saying is that there are plenty of guys who are as good or better than he is, but don\'t get talked about half as much. I think they can all be great, albeit in different events.

McArdle has excellent track ability (albeit in limited events), great cross country ability, and great ability to show up in big meets.

The 6 guys I listed above, along with J. Torres and Ritzenhein, probably have the highest overall indices of any American NCAA athletes. I should do a power rating-- now THAT would be interesting.

While I agree that there is an \"undertraining\" element, it\'s pretty difficult to judge. It was stated that McArdle goes to a small school without training partners-- this might be true. I must add that I know of some guys that go to bigger schools where one would think they have training partners-- but, they don\'t train together all the time. Examples of this would be Slattery at Colorado, who doesn\'t train with the Torres bros or Ritz all the time; or Watson at Notre Dame, who didn\'t train with Shay all the time.

What makes a great postcollegiate runner? Too many factors to talk about in one post. I tried to name a lot of them, ones that are more concrete.

There are many things like desire, work ethic, etc. that all factor in as well... but for the most part, if one is consistenly finishing in the top 10 in NCAA CC and track meets, one has the necessary mental and emotional ability.

Others, with more limited results: Spiker, Luchini. What makes me nervous about guys with limited results is that you don\'t know if they are going to be healthy, and if they are, are they going to show up when it\'s time to roll.

Of course there are plenty more guys out there that will be great, so don\'t get pissed that I didn\'t mention your name. The results will tell. Do your thing on November 25, or whenever it\'s time.

Who else do you all think can/will be great? What about Robison, Slattery, Watson, Lincoln, Sage, Tegenkamp? Spiker and Luchini? Do people agree that all these guys have what it takes, or am I the only one?

I really just wanted to highlight a few other great young American NCAA runners, stir up some convo, and say that I hope all of them will be great. They are the future.

"Even pace wins the race" Thats what a wiseman once told me.A lot of young runners make the mistake of leaving to much at the start.Mr. McArdle apparently,likes to do his racing in the middle and late stages of his races.That is a sign of maturity.This guys picture is in the dictionary next to GORILLA BALLS.Definetely "old school",Definetely going to be a great one.

He still has to learn how to finish. Has he ever outkicked someone in a major race. Has he even won any big time races? Yeah, that's what I thought. The best way to beat McArdle...stay with him (or let him stay with you) and out kick him. He's guaranteed not to have wheels in the end.

Once he works on that, then he can challenge some of the top dogs.

And some of the people of this board have no clue. Do you guys ever watch how the Africans race? They go out hard and throw in surges, then kick like a mo' foe.

Just keep tryin' to out smart them. Its been doing American distance running wonders thus far.

Sandbagger, you are a complete moron!

Yeah, maybe...but I am so right! Just try to prove me wrong. The truth really pisses people off.

Sandbagger, let's see you go out in 27 or so minutes for your first 9600 meters... then we'll see just how you finish. His finish isn't so extraordinary because he saves nothing for the end. He leaves it all out on the track. He probably has more speed than you do.

By Sandbagger's criteria, Bob Kennedy was also a major wuss: hardly ever led from the gun, got out-kicked at major competitions, etc. And we all know that Kennedy is a stud-supreme, ergo Sandbagger is full of **it.

I can't speak about other races, but I was at that great Terrier 5000 last winter. The race started fast and there was a good pack from the start, so there was absolutely no need to "take it out" any more. At a certain point, maybe 1000m from home, McArdle took charge and opened up a lead. He knows that his poor kick means he has to move early, just like Kennedy in the '96 Olympics.

McArdle has come a long way in a short time, which is why I think everyone is so excited by his potential. I don't think he'll ever have a great kick, so he'll probably move up in distance to the marathon. If he stays in New England (he's from Boston) after graduation, he'll have plenty of good guys to train with.

Sand,

You have already been proven wrong countless times on this thread...you simply are too dumb to see it.

Luv,

kk

if tom, or teammates read this... don't let this change your race plan for this weekend/next weekends races. your the man. that bu race was nasty! one of the best, and most definately the loudest crowd reaction i've ever seen for a 5k! sick!!! your sick!!! hurt'em!!!

Sandbagger,please announce when you are running next so that we can see how a stud with real nuts can move.I promise I will not be jealous.

Sandbagger wrote:

Now thats what I'm talking about when I say "growing a sac." And by the way, its just a common running expression to get the point across. Nothing "macho" about it. So don't even start that shit to get away from the subject.

you started it, I'll finish it by dropping knowledge on your ignorant ass. Look at your choice of words:

"growing a sac" = being tough, putting yourself in a great deal of hurt to burn off the competition

"puss" = taking the perceived "easy way" out, letting others lead, etc.

I'm assuming that by "sac" you're referring to the scrotum. I'm assuming that by "puss" you're referring to female genitalia. Or maybe you're saying he runs like a cat?

So, in the testosterone-addled world of Sandbagger, the equation boils down to this:

-admirable racing tactics are inherently "male"

-dishonorable racing tactics are inherently "female"

Finally, a couple of examples on which you can rub your two brain cells together:

When Paula Radcliffe led 24 laps of the Olympic 10k in Sydney, trying desperately to take the sting out of the Ethiopians' kick, did she miraculously "grow a sac"? Is she a she-male or something? Can a woman run a gutsy race and still be considered a woman?

Pre is held up as the paragon of "having a sac." In the '72 olympic 5k, he waited until the race was 2/3 over before forcing the issue. What, did he forget to bring his "sac" to the race? Was he a "puss" or something? If so, don't tell all pre acolytes, they'll have a crisis of faith.

Sandbagger... are you really that dumb? McArdle hasn't won anything big because HE ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH YET. Its as simple as that. Its not because he doesn't try you piece of shit. At MT SAC... he went with the Mexican guys... he was outkicked over the last 800 because he is not on that level... YET. Would you have rathered him hang back and lead the chase pack, surge a whole bit, and then blow by everyone at the end with a superior kick? THAT would be pretty weak if you ask me. INSTEAD, he did exactly what you say he should do. He went with the guys who up to that point FAR better than him. Right there, to make that decision, he showed a great deal of "sac". He then SURGED with them when they went. He then TRIED to kick with them, but could hang on. This has nothing to do with sac... this has to do with fitness. Do you really think he COULD have kicked with them and that he just wussed out with 600 to go (after running with them for 9200?). THAT MAKES NO SENSE you moron. You say "all you have to do is hang with McArdle for 9 laps and then kick past him to beat him." Yeah, but how many people did that at NCAA's outdoor last year? Oh Yeah... NONE. Boaz was gone and as you say, he hung off Shay. Why didn't some other schmo "just run with Tom" and then blow by him? BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T HANG WITH HIM YOU JACKASS. You really may be the dumbest poster on Letsrun. No offense.

Michael

You really think I'm that dumb? Why, because I don't have a hard on for McArdle? And I find it amusing that everyone likes to talk about 2 races out of McArdle's entire career. I tend to look at the overall picture. You all live in a fantasy world. And where the hell do you get the "9 lap" thing from. I never said anything about 9 laps. And, you say that no one out kicked McArdle in the NCAA 10k last spring, then contradict yourself by saying Shay did. If my math is correct, that is one person...right? If you read the interviews with Shay after the race (here on letsrun.com) he said he knew McArdle did not have a kick, and was confident that he would take 2nd. If Shay had any guts at all he would have gone with Boaz until he could race no longer. He had nothing to lose. Instead, the two of them jogged the rest of the race (after Boaz took off) instead of racing each other. Shay had too much in the end taking off to run a sub 60 last quarter. If the two of them pushed each other, they may have caught Boaz. Instead, they ran for 2nd.

They jogged the last few laps??? I'd like to see you run ONE lap at the pace that they "jogged" their 20th lap. Yeah, McArdle could have had "a sac" and gone with Boaz, and then died with a mile to go, ending up far further back than he otherwise did.

Another example, if Donald Sage (just throwing a name out there) runs an elite mile race that includes Hicham, should he go out in the lead and try to beat Hicham? Your logic: Yes. Everyone else on the board: No. Seeing as how his PB is fifteen seconds slower, it would be worthwhile for him to try to hang with guys just slightly better than him and then kick as hard as he could at the finish.

Running smart doesn't make you gutless. Quite the opposite, it means that you have the guts to trust your own abilities.

"Come on...dispute this...the best way to beat McArdle is to run right with him and out kick him in the end."

Do you advocate a "gutless" way to win?

not only has sandbagger completely debunked mcardle, but, in his last statement, he calls shay (who has grabbed countless races by the balls) gutless.

amazing! this guy must have testicles the size of jupiter

Guess what.T Mac seems to have achieved sandbagger's definition of manhood.He took the lead early and outran everyone else.I am aware that if he fails to do the same at the NCAAs he will just as quickly lose his new gained sac.

Sandbagger wrote:

Yeah, maybe...but I am so right! Just try to prove me wrong. The truth really pisses people off.

Brahim Boutayeb, Morocco- Gold Medal Olympic 10000 meters. Last 1200m 3:20. Last lap 66 seconds.

Olympic Record for 10000 meters.