SEB COE rare 5000m footage

i will never look at steve ovett the same:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVxxaj1j9nE&NR=1

[/quote]

Well that's the arrogance of a champion in racing but he included the finish picture in his biography so he was not the same away from the track

I've seen messages of congratulations from Steve Ovett for people who have run obscure age group records and written wedding congratulations to runners he barely knew, he is a really nice guy from what I've heard

Track could do with someone with his personality right now

Coe ran 14:06.2 in that race

S0malison wrote:

Lol, u would have thought his dad would have drilled maths into him as well.

RIP Peter

Peter had trouble doing simple arithmatic. No matter how many miles Seb would run every day, Peter would add up the distances and always conclude that Seb had run less than thirty miles every week!

I'd say he could have ran 13.15 with minimal effort.

Avocado's Number wrote:

Peter had trouble doing simple arithmatic.

"arithmetic"

(Thanks to anyone who noticed the misspelling and didn't bother to point it out)

I think based on Seb's indoor 3000m times and his mileage/training programme, he could have not changed a thing in his training and run 13:20-13:30 in the right race when he was peaking during the summer months.

Had he trained specifically for the 5000m, who knows how fast he could have run...Aoutia broke 13:00, Coe could have too.

Coe was once lapped in a 3000m indoor race. No way could he have run as fast as Aouita. Aouita had an amazing range, but ultimately bit off more than he could chew in 1988 and should have stuck with the 5000 gold. Even Ovett couldn't get close to Aouita and he had the distance pedigree. Coe stayed with the shorter stuff for a reason, it was his best distance. Even Deano doesn't claim he could have broken 13.

not a chance wrote:

Coe was once lapped in a 3000m indoor race. No way could he have run as fast as Aouita. Aouita had an amazing range, but ultimately bit off more than he could chew in 1988 and should have stuck with the 5000 gold. Even Ovett couldn't get close to Aouita and he had the distance pedigree. Coe stayed with the shorter stuff for a reason, it was his best distance. Even Deano doesn't claim he could have broken 13.

I agree that I think he stuck with the 800/1500 as he wouldn't have been as good at 5000m.

The bit about him being lapped is very misleading. He was running while ill in the US, and didn't finish the race. Everyone has a bad day when ill. He came 4th in a UK heat in 3:45 over 1500 when ill; that doesn't mean that's what he was capable of.

Most of Coe's 3000m races were indoor affairs in Jan/Feb at Cosford, a notoriously poor wooden track. He would often say he couldn't train for days afterwards due to the punishment his feet took over 15 laps. They were nothing more than a benchmark of fitness. His fastest in 7:54 in 86 was with a last km inside 2:30. With even pace on an outdoor track that day I'd say he could have run 7:45. By the summer I see no reason why 7:35 - 7:40 wouldn't have been possible of his 800-1500 training.

I strongly believe that if Ovett hadn't had the respiratory problems in 84 (and certainly without the railings incident in 81) and had moved up to 5000m in 82/83 (his move up in 85 was way past his best), then he would have been a match for Aouita over 5000m, especially in a Championship situation. I think Ovett's best time was about 13:20, and he was certainly capable of much faster than this.

Why Coe may not have had the ability to break 13:00, I don't think 13:20 - 13:25 would have caused any problems for him as a one off during peak summer in any of his best seasons. That would have been world class in those days.

Remember he beat Mcloud & Coghlan (both 13:20 runners) easily in a 4 mile road race in 78 (and knocked 11 secs off Brendan Foster's course record) after a season of practically pure 800m running (I think he ran a solitary mile that year). He ran 17:54 for 4 miles, which is 13:50 ish pace for 5k, for an extra mile.

With specific 5k training for a couple of seasons post 84, I think something in the area of 13:05 - 13:10 was possible. That would have still put him in the top 3 or 4 in the world. But if he could still be No.1 at 800 and 1500, then why change!

How ironic it would have been if Coe had moved up to the 5000 for the 1988 olympics especially as Aouita tried to move down. It was a pity they never ever raced, more down to Aouita I feel than Coe. He should have taken Coe on in Zurich after LA after claiming he would have won the 1500 if he'd entered it.

Harry Wilson reckoned that Ovett would have been under 13 mins (he coached Goater to 13:15), but I believe Ovett went his own way for a time. It's a pity that his career just fizzled out considering the invincibility he showed between 77 and 80. Going through the motions, finishing halfway down the field must have been hard. I don't think Coe would have settled for that and he left the stage at the right moment (aside from the Commonwealths where he was clearly ill again).

deanouk wrote:

[quote]not a chance wrote:

Remember he beat Mcloud & Coghlan (both 13:20 runners) easily in a 4 mile road race in 78

he must have forgotten his horse that time.

Lorenzo the Magnificent wrote:

It's unofficial, but I got him in about 1:22.

sorry 1:23 - 1:24ish.

head in the mcleods wrote:

deanouk wrote:

[quote]not a chance wrote:

Remember he beat Mcloud & Coghlan (both 13:20 runners) easily in a 4 mile road race in 78

he must have forgotten his horse that time.

Lol!

Yes, sorry, I spelled his name wrong.

Should have been Mike McLeod. Apologies if he's read this. A great 10km runner.

not a chance wrote:

How ironic it would have been if Coe had moved up to the 5000 for the 1988 olympics especially as Aouita tried to move down. It was a pity they never ever raced, more down to Aouita I feel than Coe. He should have taken Coe on in Zurich after LA after claiming he would have won the 1500 if he'd entered it.

Harry Wilson reckoned that Ovett would have been under 13 mins (he coached Goater to 13:15), but I believe Ovett went his own way for a time. It's a pity that his career just fizzled out considering the invincibility he showed between 77 and 80. Going through the motions, finishing halfway down the field must have been hard. I don't think Coe would have settled for that and he left the stage at the right moment (aside from the Commonwealths where he was clearly ill again).

Thanks for your response, which I agree with.

Not too sure though what you mean by "but I believe Ovett went his own way for a time". ??

Do you mean he didn't train with Wilson for a while? If so, what years?

I always felt sorry for Ovett, because after the LA OLympics he really wasn't ever a major force. After winning the Commonwealth 5000m in 86, I thought he might re-emerge and go on to win the European 5k and give Aouita a race in the 87 Worlds. But it was not to be.

I wonder if he really wasn't able to return to the same physical condition after LA, or did he really lose the mental edge? Perhaps he just didn't care? Although I find that the least plausible reason.

When I used to see him get routinely beaten from 85 onwards in 1500s, by men he would have trounced in his prime, it was quite difficult to watch.

I know Coe declined after 86, but there were the occasional glimpses of his best form, and he still won most of his races. Ovett's decline was much quicker and far more drastic.

Why can't people admit that Coe sucked over 1500m? Look, he had a great coach in his father, great ability, great resources. If he, his coach, or his federation would have thought he had the slightest shot at success over 5000m, he would have focused on the distance.

Coe was no El Guerrouj - an athlete capable of racing from 1500-5000m. According to Steve Scott, Coe was even worse in Cross Country... not the makings of a great 5000m runner.

Coe was a brilliant 800m/1500m athlete. But to give the man false PR's is just lame. Read his book when you have time and you will realize he could not race 5000m well.

Under Ultra wrote:

Why can't people admit that Coe sucked over 1500m? Look, he had a great coach in his father, great ability, great resources. If he, his coach, or his federation would have thought he had the slightest shot at success over 5000m, he would have focused on the distance.

Coe was no El Guerrouj - an athlete capable of racing from 1500-5000m. According to Steve Scott, Coe was even worse in Cross Country... not the makings of a great 5000m runner.

Coe was a brilliant 800m/1500m athlete. But to give the man false PR's is just lame. Read his book when you have time and you will realize he could not race 5000m well.

I don't think anyone is claiming he was as good at 5000m as EL G, who was a 1500 - 5000m runner, just as EL G couldn't hold a candle to Coe in anything from 400 to 1000m.

Coe didn't enjoy X-Country running, no, because it didn't suit his style of running. Although he did win the 2.5km Schweppes International X-Country in '77 beating Wessinghage. He was 4th in the following year's event over 2.5miles.

He did, however, produce several impressive runs on the road in races from 3miles to 7.5km, beating the likes of McLeod, Coghlan, Cova, Bordin, Mei and Panetta. All established distance stars of the 80's who won a fair few medals over 5 & 10k.

No, Coe wasn't going to be as good at 5000m as he'd been over 8 & 15, but he hardly "sucked". He could easily have run 13:20 in the late 70's early 80's, which in the context of the time was still world class.