Pre is the greatest
Pre is the greatest
You also have to factor in that Geb has 26 World Record/World Best performances.
Including:
5000m outdoors- 4 times
5000m indoors - 3 times
10,000m - 3 times
Marathon - twice
2 miles - indoors and outdoors
3000m indoors - twice
2000m indoors
10K road
10 mile road
Half marathon
To go with a career at 10,000m with 6 Golds a Silver and a Bronze plus a Silver at 5,000.
Facing Tergat and Hissou in their prime.
Every time he lined up to race he not only tried to beat everyone in the competition he tried to run faster than everyone in history.
And look at the duration of his career.
One more thing: Dropping the 5000 WR from 12:55 to 12:44 in one race may be the greatest distance performance ever.
Also, consider that when Geb started his senior career in 1993, the world records for 5000, 10000, and marathon stood at 12:58, 26:58, and 2:06:50. He took them down to 12:39, 26:22 and 2:03:59. That has to count for something.
Haile Gebrselassie is the GOAT. Not just in distance running, but in the sport at all, male or female, any sport.
I've followed his career for almost 19 years now very closely. Which world class athlete has had a career which lasted for so many years? And Gebrselassie always was at the very top of his sport.
Just after two decades it seems he lost little bit of his capabilities and his dedication now. But what he has done in this two decades by far is enough for him to be ranked Nr. 1 in any serious ranking.
For sure, others also have had wonderful careers. Bekele for example maybe has surpassed Gebrselassie in the 5000m/10000m (but that's open for some discussion). And for sure in XC. But considered Gebs records over so many distances, his PBs, his win/loss record, his medals and his longevity(!!!) it's not a question at all. He is the greatest runner of all time - and for me - no doubt - the greates sports person in history.
both are wonderful athletes - if Bekele will reach his old class again he has a chance to become the greatest runner all time.
Geb makes it look so easy running sub 2:05s. But he's lost a little competitive credibility by dodging some competitions, like the Beijing Olympics. I still consider him GOAT though.
Gebresalassie.
At this point I am not optimistic we will ever see Bekele back in his old form. I hope I am wrong. To surpass Geb he would have to do some damage at the half marathon and marathon, IMHO.
Mo Greene, baby! Is it a lion or is it a goat? It's yo baby daddy, that's who!
A Skeptic wrote:
Also, consider that when Geb started his senior career in 1993, the world records for 5000, 10000, and marathon stood at 12:58, 26:58, and 2:06:50. He took them down to 12:39, 26:22 and 2:03:59. That has to count for something.
This counts for everything. Looking simply at the track, Geb lowered the WRs in the 5 and 10 by significant margins. Bekele lowered them by a few seconds. Those in the "knowledgeable running community" understand you have to looked at accomplishments in context. Geb is the GOAT.
Neither is a goat. Both are human.
A Skeptic wrote:
Also, consider that when Geb started his senior career in 1993, the world records for 5000, 10000, and marathon stood at 12:58, 26:58, and 2:06:50. He took them down to 12:39, 26:22 and 2:03:59. That has to count for something.
Can you imagine Chris Solinsky, Matt Tegankamp, and Dathan Ritzenhein contending for the 5k wr and Solinsky contending for the 10k wr and Ryan Hall breaking the marathon WR? All would have happened in 1993. And now, They can't even get in the top 3-5 in any normal Diamond League event and one competitive marathon on a scale of 2-3 competitive marathons per season running much faster than the previous marathon wr. Pretty insane to think about.
A Skeptic wrote:
Also, consider that when Geb started his senior career in 1993, the world records for 5000, 10000, and marathon stood at 12:58, 26:58, and 2:06:50. He took them down to 12:39, 26:22 and 2:03:59. That has to count for something.
The 10000m record stood at 27:08 at the beginning of the 1993 season...
I think it is fair to say that Bekele may be able to challenge Geb for the goat title if he continues to be successful for another 4-5 years. That however looks doubtful at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if he never gets back to where he was before.
For further "context" the more it is lowered, the more difficult it is to lower it by a significant amount. Bekele's career overlapped with Geb so it isn't like we are talking about a soft record set forever ago. Bekele beat Geb's times. He also ran 3 10ks 26:25 or faster. He also hasn't lost a 10k. He is faster and has more combined 5k/10k golds. Geb has the roads but Bekele hasn't started that phase of his career. Neither had Geb at age 28. I would contend Bekele's xc dominance far outdistances Geb's road career. Can't wait to see Bekele in the half and marathon. By then Im sure a whole knew set of reasons why Bekele isn't the GOAT will exist.
its Daniel Komen
comeonnow wrote:
He also hasn't lost a 10k (..) Geb has the roads but Bekele hasn't started that phase of his career.
Geb had not lost races in a long time either. Every streak breaks at some point.
We don't know if Bekele will ever move to the roads.
Gebs 5000 and 10000 records reminded me a bit of Sergey Bubka. Trying to lower them just a bit every single time so there is still something left. At some point your career is on the decline and you think "what could I have done?".
One thing about Bekele is that he hasn't set a personal record in years.
He didn't put up a 10,000 time in 2006 or 2010.
Hasn't come within 10 seconds of his 5,000 PR but once.
He's just been running to the level of his competition once he got the records so he never pushed himself to see how good he could be.
A lot of his greatness relies on the fact that he doesn't have the same level of competition that Geb had.
All of the credit for beating Geb in 2003 race and getting his records in 2004 and 2005.
And his 2008 and 2009 doubles were fantastic. Plus the XC resume.
Oustide of Championships he stopped chasing the clock.
It may be nit picking but to be greatest of all time you have to look at everything.
He needs more duration - more than 10 years of high level performances.
He is on his way.
Nutella1 wrote:
Gebs 5000 and 10000 records reminded me a bit of Sergey Bubka. Trying to lower them just a bit every single time so there is still something left. At some point your career is on the decline and you think "what could I have done?".
They remind you of Sergey Bubka??? In some of his records he surely was capable of running little bit faster (for ex: Oslo 97 10000m). But 11 seconds in the 5000m is not exactly Bubka-like I would say...
He could have run a few more records if just this was his goal.
This is a good debate because a strong argument can be made either way, but I have to throw in my vote for Haile G. For 3 reasons:
1). His track records have been broken, yes, but he took the 5000 and 10000 to a new level. He didn't just better the old records. He DESTROYED them.
2). His range is greater than what we've seen from KB, so far.
3). At this point his longevity is greater than that of KB.
Again, this one is close and I even found myself arguing in favor of KB as GOAT not long ago. I was basing that argument on the fact that KB is younger and I feel he still has the potential to exceed the accomplishments of Geb, but then I realized that a resurgence by KB is definitely not a given. He may never return to form or win any other major events, in which case I think the edge has to go to Haile.
said88 wrote:
They remind you of Sergey Bubka??? In some of his records he surely was capable of running little bit faster (for ex: Oslo 97 10000m). But 11 seconds in the 5000m is not exactly Bubka-like I would say...
I believe I read somewhere that Jos Hermans, his manager, told him during that run (11 seconds) that he should be careful not to take too much off. I am not sure if he held back and could have taken off a lot more or not. At least he proved afterwards that he could do it.
Ok, maybe not exactly like Bubka. If he wants to be like Bubka, he also need to change the rules of the game after he retires, but that's a whole different story.