credit wrote:
I think a lot of credit should go to Korir of Iona. He took about 6 laps for that group. They all sat on him and never really helped out. Although Sambu beat him tonight I think things will be different in 6 weeks
Both are baller times for college runners. And to think that Korir only really came into his own this school year. Won a ridiculously fast NCAA indoor 5000 (meet record time i think) and now 27:29! Damn.
troof be told wrote:
More credit for Karoki, please. All these other chumps were also-rans. Karoki jogged 6800 m looking around at the hotties in the bleachers and then got down to business while all the other nambies jockeyed for 10+ sec behind. WC gold medalist in the works.
Credit to Karoki. He made it look like he was racing a JV team. And his move to leave the field behind looked like something out of a comic book.
But WC gold medalist? Maybe. But it seems like there are 20 more who could do the same thing. Or at least enough that I have a hard time keeping track.
The Stache wrote:
credit wrote:I think a lot of credit should go to Korir of Iona. He took about 6 laps for that group. They all sat on him and never really helped out. Although Sambu beat him tonight I think things will be different in 6 weeks
Both are baller times for college runners. And to think that Korir only really came into his own this school year. Won a ridiculously fast NCAA indoor 5000 (meet record time i think) and now 27:29! Damn.
A nice rivalry brewing between those two...should be a good NCAA 10000m and looking ahead to next XC season...
Has to be said wrote:
Credit to Karoki. He made it look like he was racing a JV team. And his move to leave the field behind looked like something out of a comic book.
Agreed, everybody around me was laughing when Karoki made his move! Right before the move, the pace dropped and the front pack bunched up, as everybody tried to avoid taking the lead. Karoki looked over both shoulders, then sprinted up front like a clown glory-winning the first 100m at a local road race. 'Course, then Karoki kept going for another two miles.
Karoki will not make the Kenyan Team , there are a dozen guys now in Kenya that could do this in their sleep. Wait for the trials.
None of the americans will make the WC final given current results to date.
Chris is saving himself for what ? Why is he afraid to race anything beyond a mile ?
Stupid Man wrote:
Karoki will not make the Kenyan Team , there are a dozen guys now in Kenya that could do this in their sleep. Wait for the trials.
None of the americans will make the WC final given current results to date.
Chris is saving himself for what ? Why is he afraid to race anything beyond a mile ?
What do you mean, "the final" They have not done rounds for the 10k at WCs or Olympics since 2003 at the latest, maybe 2001.
Blood on the Tracks wrote:
He ran a 10000 in 2003 at a college meet.
where? when? how fast?
1st USATF Club Championships XC 2005 29:47 is all I can find
INDIANAPOLIS - Former University of Wisconsin standout Matt Tegenkamp has been named USA Track & Field's Athlete of the Week after his victory in the open men's 10 km race Saturday at the 2005 USATF National Club Cross Country Championships in Rochester, N.Y.
The 2001 junior men's national champion, Tegenkamp broke open an exciting duel with former NAIA All-American Fernando Cabada of Bristol, Va., winning the race in 29 minutes, 47 seconds. Cabada was the runner-up in 29:50.Tegenkamp (Madison, Wis.) looks to compete in a couple races during the upcoming indoor season, and also plans to compete at the 2006 USA Cross Country Championships February 18-19 at Van Cortlandt Park in New York City.
Now in its fifth year, USATF's Athlete of the Week program is designed to recognize outstanding performers at all levels of the sport. USATF names a new honoree each week and features the athlete on the USATF website. Selections are based on top performances and results from the previous week.
2005 USATF Athlete of the Week Winners: January 4, Amy Rudolph; January 11, Dathan Ritzenhein; January 18, Janine Davis; January 25, Wallace Spearmon Jr.; February 1, Erin Gilreath; February 8, LaShawn Merritt; February 15, LaShawn Merritt; February 22, Walter Davis; March 1, Angela Daigle; March 8, Gov. Mike Huckabee; March 15, Kerron Clement; March 22, Lauren Fleshman; March 29, Deena Kastor; April 5, Deena Kastor; April 12, Tianna Madison; April 19 Alan Culpepper; April 26, John Godina; May 3, Amy Rudolph; May 10, Galen Rupp; May 17, Erica McLain; May 24, John Godina; June 1, Walter Dix; June 8, Justin Gatlin; June 15, Darold Williamson; June 23, Willie Gault; June 28, Kerron Clement; July 6, Ebony Collins; July 12, Sanya Richards; July 19, Galen Rupp; July 28, Wallace Spearmon Jr.; August 2, Ryan Whiting; August 9; Adam Nelson, August 16; Justin Gatlin; August 23, Sanya Richards; August 30, Bernard Lagat; September 6, Abdi Abdirahman; September 13, Allyson Felix; September 20, Deena Kastor; September 27, Colleen De Reuck; October 4, Ryan Shay; October 11, Deena Kastor; October 17, Josh McDougal; October 25, Jarrod Shoemaker; November 1, Angela Homan; November 8, Meb Keflezighi; November 15, Arianna Lambie; November 22, Matt Tegenkamp.
I hate when uneducated people post on the boards.
There are not dozens of Kenyans running sub 27:13... let alone in their sleep. That is a myth. Just like there are not dozens of Kenyans running sub 13:00. In fact last year, 3 Kenyans ran sub 27:13 and 2 Americans did. Only 1 Ethiopian ran faster then 27:30! One of the Kenyans sub 27:13 will be an American citizen soon (Chelanga). The 2 are American's are none other then Solinsky and Rupp. Those 2 had the 2nd and 5th fastest times in the world.
Now having said that, I am the first to acknowledge there are few high level 10ks in the world, so this is a big reason for the slow times. But it works both ways. No reason to think with more 10ks throughout the world you would have more American's running faster as well.
Only 5 Kenyans ran faster then 12:56 last year, 3 Ethiopians and 2 Americans did.
I'm not sure why people always think that the Kenyans are so far out there and in so many numbers... but at the top level, there aren't that many guys running sub 13 or sub 27. Where the Kenyans have number is in the 13:00-13:20 range. And from the look of things, we're getting there as well. Don't you guys remember when 13:20 was studly in the US? Now we have college kids running mid 13:20s and not even getting mentioned on the home page. Give it another Olympic cycle and I bet in any given year we have 20 guys sub 13:20.
Also, there are no rounds for the 10k. For London, I would near guarantee 3 American's in the 5k Final, 1-2 medals in the 5k, a medal in the 10k, and 3 in the top 10 at 10k.
Of the 78 performers who have bested 13 flat 38 are Kenyan
of the 33 athletes who have bested 27:00 22 are Kenyan
Bidan Karoki ran 29:13.67 this week. He is 38th on the alltime Kenyan list and 66th on the All time world list.
One Americah has bested 27:00 two are under 27:13
five Americans have gone sub 13.
The idea that Kenyans are faster at 5,000 and 10,000m than any other national group may be more than pure myth.
I don't care about the past nor do I care about depth as far as this discussion is concerned. I care about the here and now and the top end guys today who have a chance at medaling. In the here and now, at the top end, we are the second best country at 1500, 5k and 10k. Better then Ethiopia, Morocco, Spain, etc. This is indisputable. These are facts.
Who cares if ten thousand Kenyans ran 12:55-13:05 over the last 10 years? We weren't there yet and today, that doesn't matter. I'm not disputing that the Kenyans are fast... and more specifically, incredibly deep. Much moreso then the US is (though we're making strides). But again, that's a different discussion.
The bottom line is the following:
NO country has dozens of guys who can run sub 27:15 as a walk in the park. Kenya, for all its depth... isn't THAT good. Similarly, its not like every Kenyan runs sub 13:00 on a whim like many posters on this site would have you believe. Do some? Yes. Of course. But its not like there are 40 active Kenyans who are busting out 12:50 or 12:55 5ks. There are a small handful. Just like the US has a small handful. What I also find amazing is I think it is generally regarded that Ethiopia is the 2nd best distance running nation. But if you look, they are very similar to us at the top end, with less depth. We're actually a much stronger running nation then Ethiopia... ACROSS THE BOARD (top end and depth). Yes, you get the Kenny Bs and and the Haile Gs, but outside of that, our guys can compete with Merga and a few of their others... and our B guys are better then their B guys.
I don't know where the American inferiority complex came from... but I'm glad that the people that have the talent to breakthrough don't have it. Instead, it seems that a bunch of wannabe slow pokes on Letsrun are the only ones still building up myths about how everyone is so much more genetically capable then us.
I'll be the first to admit that I don't write well enough to get my point across... so hopefully it came through in this post.
Y he axes, . wrote:
of the 33 athletes who have bested 27:00 22 are Kenyan
Yeah, but does this prove that 'dozens' of Kenyans could do that right now?
Or not?
We're aware that Kenya is very strong. This isn't in question. But the degree of strength, particularly at the very top, is something that is often exagerrated.
It's just like when Mo Farah went under 13 last year, and all the ignorant British 'fans' starting spouting about how he could still be beaten by 'hundreds' of Africans.
It's not true.
I wouldn't say our "B" guys are better than their "B" guys; heck many of their B guys would be our A guys! Off the top of my head, for men, Ethiopia has Geb, Geb-Geb, Bekele, Sihine, Merga (xc merga), Merga (road/marathon), Mekonnen, Tariku Bekele, Tsegay Kebede.... do i need to go on? Pretty much all those guys could move up one, or down one, from their best event, and still be better than our top guys at that event...
You're not entirely wrong... but still exaggerated. I went and pulled each countries top performers from 2009, 2010 and 2011 and made a top 10 per country list. Figure depth outside of the top 10 is sort of irrelevant. Here are the facts:
5K:
Ethopia, average: 13:00
Kenenisa Bekele 12:52.3
Dejen Gebremeskel 12:53.6
Imane Merga 12:53.6
Tariku Bekele 12:54.0
Ali Abdosh 12:56.5
Bekana Daba 12:58.5
Sileshi Sihine 13:06.6
Derese Mekonnen 13:07.7
Abera Kuma 13:07.8
Adebe Dinkesa 13:08.6
US, average: 13:08
Bernard Lagat 12:54.1
Chris Solinsky 12:55.5
Dathan Ritzenhein 12:56.3
Matthew Tegencamp 12:58.6
Galen Rupp 13:07.3
Andrew Bumbalough 13:16.8
Anthony Familglietti 13:18.0
Bobby Curtis 13:19.0
Ed Moran 13:20.2
Tim Nelson 13:20.3
10K:
Ethiopia, average: 27:25
Kenenisa Bekele 26:46.3
Ali Abdosh 27:09.4
Imane Merga 27:15.9
Adebe Dinkesa 27:17.5
Ibrahim Jelian 27:22.2
Yacob Jarso 27:30.1
Degene Asfaw 27:32.6
Tilahun Regassa 27:38.1
Shume Gerbaba 27:48.7
Ayele Abshero 27:54.3
US, average: 27:32
Chris Solinsky 26:59.6
Galen Rupp 27:10.7
Dathan Ritzenhein 27:22.3
Bobby Curtis 27:24.7
Tim Nelson 27:28.2
Matthew Tegencamp 27:28.2
Anthony Famiglietti 27:39.7
Scott Bauhs 27:51.8
Ryan Vail 27:57.4
Aaron Braun 27:57.9
I would be interested in seeing the same analysis for the period 1999-2001.
I would expect to see the gap narrow more between now and London. Maybe I'll update the lists as the season goes on. We still have some ground to make up in the 5k. 10K is pretty close to a wash. I personally think 13:10 will be the new 13:20 within the next 2-3 years in the US. BUT, I don't think that the rest of the world will get appreciably faster. We're just playing catch-up a bit.
Ok , when was the last time an american medaled in 5k or 10k on the track.
More options , how about world cross ?
To be blind of the depth of the number of kenyans with talent is just plain stupid.
Go to the kenyan trials and you would see.
I am going with the "I can't write well" philosophy rather then the "you have poor reading comprehension" philosophy on this one. I said the following:
``<
Im not disputing that the Kenyans are fast... and more specifically, incredibly deep. Much moreso then the US is (though we're making strides). But again, that's a different discussion.
The bottom line is the following:
NO country has dozens of guys who can run sub 27:15 as a walk in the park. Kenya, for all its depth... isn't THAT good. Similarly, its not like every Kenyan runs sub 13:00 on a whim like many posters on this site would have you believe. Do some? Yes. Of course. But its not like there are 40 active Kenyans who are busting out 12:50 or 12:55 5ks. There are a small handful. Just like the US has a small handful.
%%>
So let me try again. Kenya, as I thought I simply put it above, is incredibly deep. I never argued that. I actually mentioned it again... "for all its depth" I thought implied my belief that Kenya is insanely deep. The point, however, is that 27:15 is no walk in the park for dozens of Kenyans and sub 13:00 does not happen by the boat load like many posters on here would like to have you believe. That is a myth propagated by insecure Americans after watching the US get its butt kicked by a bunch of supposed 19 year olds running 20 seconds faster then us in the mid-late 90s. The reality is a handful of Kenyans run that fast every year... and a smaller handful of Ethiopians and Americans now do. But the differences are shrinking. The Kenyans have gotten no faster in 15 years and the Americans are insanely faster.
If you take the fastest 10 Kenyan times in 1999/2000, the average is 12:57. If you take the fastest 10 Kenyan times in the 2009/2010/2011 time period, a decade later, the average time is... 12:56!
The US? Average of the top 10 in the 1999/2000 was 13:19 (thank BK for his 13:05 bringing down the average. Without him, we're over 13:20!). In the 2009/2010/2011 time period? 13:08
Our top 10 guys are 10 seconds faster, on average then a decade ago. The Kenyan's are virtually flat versus a decade ago.
Also,
Medaling is an arbitrary standard of excellence. What if the Olympic Committee suddenly said we're giving medals to the top 4. Does that now mean Teg is a different caliber runner because he walks away with a medal from the 2007 WC?
Bottom line, if I'm not mistaken, the US has had 2-3 finalists in each of the last 2 WC and the last Olympic Games. That is as solid as it comes.