Coaching a team that doesn't care.

As a coach, I've experienced several different levels of kids who want to improve. It's hard to break around the apathy, and certainly not an overnight process. A couple of folks have suggested getting one kid and nurturing their development, but even if you get through to that kid, you're leaving out the rest of the team--and I don't doubt that everyone in this community can recognize the value, especially in high school, of training with a team.

Since every kid is an individual--background, talent, personality--you have to meet them where they are. It's a challenge to do, because all of your own crafted plans are likely suited for kids who are like you--driven to succeed. Of COURSE you're going to end up with some guys who are just there to hang out with other slackers. Don't reward that, but don't kick them off. If you're inclusive, then your available talent pool increases--and as you get a group of focused runners to buy in, the youth leadership on the team will gradually convert (say, over the course of five years) the dummies into kids who can begin to realize their potential. That team culture is absolutely crucial to its identity and success. Again, this is a process, not an overnight change, and although you as a coach can lay the framework, you have to work with the kids on a personal basis to get to that point.

Two other things that I've found to be incredibly successful are getting parents involved and going to a running camp. With parents, you gain a support network of people who can help your team get to meets, can come cheer, and for the engaged families encourage the kids to work harder. Hold a parents' meeting at the beginning of each season and describe your credentials, coaching and training philosophies, and what their kids stand to gain from the team experience. The next step is holding a running camp, preferably a week long and away from home. Spending a week with training as the only major focus encourages team bonding and if you can balance structure with fun, teaches your kids that running hard is way more interesting than running slow.

And your team culture will change every season as you get a new group of captains and veteran leaders. Be sure to continually check up with your team members to see what works, how they're feeling (physically and mentally), encourage academic success as well... It's a whole slew of things, and your role as coach can't be dictated just by what you can teach them as runners, but as people.

I'm in my 3rd year coaching the same team, and I can finally say I am content with the culture of my team. Here's what I think helped:

I am consistent with team rules. If my stars skip practice without a legit excuse, they are benched.

During indoor track, I hand-selected 5 or so kids to go train on Sundays at a very nice indoor facility I had access to. (those 5 are super committed now)

I also asked 6 kids (3 boys and 3 girls) if they wanted to change up the training routine. They took a long break after xc, and trained through indoor and the normal "break" between indoor and outdoor. I can tell that they feel really proud that they are ahead of the other kids, and that I give them a lot of attention.

I have the whole team do a dynamic warm-up together, and then go straight into whatever their workout is, so that there is little time to fool around. I do the warm-up with them just about every day.

I give the kids some control over their training. (Some people might disagree with this) I often ask kids who are struggling (perhaps dogging?) workouts "Are you done? I'm not going to make you do any more if you are feeling dead." I'd say 85% of the time, they do 2-3 more intervals and get faster. The rest of the time, they stop and it was probably a good decision.

I talk to parents when I think kids have potential. I thank them for coming to meets and allowing me to spend so much time with their kid.

I am enthusiastic and realistic. There's no substitute for that.

Ghost of Doug Logan wrote:

Next time that it is obvious that they don't care. Just sit them on the field and say "IF YOU DON'T WANT TO RUN TODAY, GO HOME. NOW. AND DON'T COME BACK, EVER!!!"

This works short term. If they're really being a pain in the ass one day and slacking off on an important workout, this one will shut them up and at least get them to move on that day. Effects are temporary and only productive a few times a season, though.

ajlff wrote:

Find ONE kid. Should be a Sophomore of Freshman. Take him aside and tell him he can be GREAT. Tell him he reminds you of some fast ass runner when said runner started off. Get this kid to start training right. After a few years kids will see the hard work that paid off and start being more motivated.

This is the right idea for a long-term solution. Although I'd point out that it doesn't have to be one kid, and he doesn't have to be great. It's about atmosphere. Part of your job as a coach is to nurture the right culture of competitiveness and drive on your team. So find the group of kids that will respond to this culture and work on them. As they get better, that culture will naturally spread from them and take over. They'll probably catch flack from the older slackers who still "own" the team, but this will be temporary. They WILL leave behind the less talented slackers and gain significant ground on the more talented ones. The others will either get in line, graduate, or quit. Having an eye for the year-to-year development and attitude of the team is important for a high school coach. Be patient.

Each situation is different and the details of how to handle it change. But preaching values - success, confidence, caring and loyalty, hard work - is the start. You have to live and model the values as well. That said, here are things that have worked.

Sell them on a vision. This can fall flat if the whole team doesn't care. So maybe start small, talking with a few of the salvageable pieces. At the beginning, don't even talk about winning championships or building an awesome team. Earn trust first - talk about the next meet, the next practice; the overall work ethic.

Expectations and plans: For each meet and each individual. This is how you model the values. Show them you care, give them plans which lead to success. Again, maybe it falls flat with the whole team, so you're talking to individuals before and after practice.

Quarantine the worst influences. Most kids want success and discipline, but are easily influenced. This can be bad, but you can also use it for good. Create training groups so that the kids who care, or even show a glimmer of caring, train together, and the idiots are on their own. Get them out of sight - fartleks, runs, workouts at other times / places from the salvageable group.

Quarantine part II: Suspend kids who are caught walking - if you can't trust them to do their job, dismiss them from practice for a day or two. The others have to see consequences. Or, make kids do their entire workouts and all their runs within the perimeter of your athletic field so you can watch them. If nothing else, it's usually embarrassing for them. If they walk, workout is over and they go home. You could try getting AD's permission to cut them if they can't / won't complete simple runs.

Self-motivating workouts:

Dropdown (or dropdead) workouts: 200s that start at :50 per, and go till they can't drop time any more;

progressive loops dropping time, same deal.

Eliminators: Suicides where last place sits out, and winners go till there's one person standing.

The beep test (stolen from the soccer team): I've had all 150 of our track athletes do this. It's amazing.

http://www.soccercoachingnotes.com/coaching/fitness/beep-test-for-aerobic-fitness.html

In all these workouts, the athlete gets to choose when it's over. You access their competitive natures - if they have any.

Above all, challenge the ones you can save - if you go to the lowest common denominator, the ones who can be good will drift away in search of an activity or coach that matches their motivation level.

Good luck. It's a slow process. Give us an update.

Honestly, I have used just about all of these with my kids. You have to understand the societal view of track and field. NO CUTS AND NO BENCH. That is how we are perceived by athletes, administration, and parents.

I always teach my kids about their events and about training principles in general. Even if one kid becomes a student of the sport I have been successful, if one other kid cares a little bit more then that is even better. I am very open with my kids and give them the benefit of the doubt in many cases. Always pull them to the side and ask how they feel, ask them how their parents/brothers/sisters are... ect ect. This sport is hard as hell to train for, they need to have some fun! I try to strike a balance between tough and fun.

However, because of the social view of our sport there will almost always be dead weight. The kids who don't care and who just go through the motions because they know they can't be cut or benched. I have kicked 2 people off my team this year. Honestly, it is the best move I have ever made. One of the girls is my stud 400 runner... but has NO work ethic and a terrible attendance record. This is probably the most successful thing I have done. Kids who were semi focused are now focused. The leaders of my team have a much stronger bond with the lower tier athletes. We actually look like a team heading into the postseason. We may be a bit slower because of cutting my stud runner, but we are a TEAM now. Starting and leaving practice together, lifting together, abs together, and they even discuss my training theories together.

My solution? Make an example of the pain in the ass kids. THERE IS A BENCH IN THIS SPORT, AND YOU CAN BE CUT!

am wrote:

Ask them how much they enjoy losing.

losing has no consequences

The best thing that ever happened to me was when I was caught cheating on a test my freshman year of high school. I was terrified I would get kicked out. It was a fantastic lesson about doing what is necessary to be really successful.

Kick them off the team. Assign time/mark goals, and tell them they have to make it, or they get kicked off and get no credit or whatever for being there. Thats the only way to assign an, "A for Effort".

Focus on the few kids who do care.

There is more than one. You need to find them. I focus on maybe 10-20% of the team. I treat the others with respect but I tell them, that to get more of my time they need to show me they care.

Kicking kids off the team is usually not an option unless they have done something "bad". But if that was an option I would pare the team down.

Firebird wrote:

Other coaches: how would you handle this situation? There is literally one boy who cares and has some ability. Focus on him?

How many kids are there who care but don't have any ability? They are worth your time too. They may not score for you but they can mentor your next class of freshmen. I agree with all of the people who say focus on the people who care, show the rest of the team what you have to offer. Some of them may not take you up on it, but your next class of freshmen will follow the hard workers not the slackers.

somedudethatcoachesalso wrote:

One of the biggest common themes amongst kids at that age is a lot of them share the attitude that if they are not trying then they can not fail. If you keep working at it and their times start dropping that attitude will slowly go away.

This is the absolute truth for so many kids. 80% of the male athletes at the school which I coach and teach seem content to put on a uniform and get smoked. Our football team was state champions just over a decade ago but has been 2-8 and 1-9 the last two seasons. Our varsity b-ball team was 0-23 this year. Baseball is 3-10 right now and got mercy ruled in their last game. I share athletes with all the other sports (except the spring ones, obviously) and there was tremendous carryover of the attitude that if you didn't try, losing wasn't that bad.

One of my big themes this year has been that it is cool to care about what you are doing. We are a small country school (pop 750) and there is tremendous community support for the kids that put on our uniforms and represent our town. I have told kids not to waste that good will. They have responded. Our varsity boys are 4-0 in dual meets and have placed well (as a team and as individuals) in invitationals against much larger schools. I would say that the team is as strong as it has been any time in the last 10 years.

It sounds corny, but talking about things like work ethic and leadership can be very effective.

The corrolary is that kids love praise. Find the kids that are working hard and doing it right and make sure you praise them so that everyone can hear. If you have slackers, find any little thing they do right and make sure you recognize it. You can still drop the hammer on them when they slack, but you have to find that nugget of effort and build on it too.

Two pages into this thread and the discussion is still meaningful and on topic with no trolling... Is this heaven? Will I wake up?

Lack of motivation in kids like this is often rooted in perceived inability even when it seems to be otherwise. Take a note from video games and make sure your kids are getting CONSTANT feedback on how they are doing. This comes in the form of GOALS GOALS GOALS and measuring progress. Early season goals, mid season goals. Improving the number of situps they can do. The time they do a certain loop in. Kids love improving and feeling good about it. Make sure each one is constantly setting goals that will push them but will be attainable. The motivation will come when kids want to feel that satisfaction of reaching their goal again and again.

Also kicking kids off the team for not meeting a goal is a bad idea. A little about my story of going from a student with a 1.6 GPA and slow times to a Footlocker Finalist and getting straight As. My coach really saved my life. If he had taken a less supportive approach, I probably wouldn't have responded.

I was the laziest kid ever. I ran my first two mile cross country race as a freshmen in 14 minutes and 40 seconds. It hurt so bad, worse than any race ever would. I had a an absolutely splitting headache. I was literally saying to myself that I was going to quit the team immediately because I never wanted to go through that again.

At that moment my coach, who I would have though would have been buys fawning over his nationally ranked girls X-C team with one of the best milers in the country put his hand on my shoulder and said

"Great Job, you were the surprise of the meet! If we can get you running 12 minutes for two miles we've got a shot at the frosh/soph league championship."

That little moment literally paved the way towards my being, a Cali State Champ, footlocker finalist and collegiate all-american.

My two mile progression in high school was

9th- 10:57

10th- 9:52

11th- 9:16

12th- 9:07

Yes I remember all those PRs (graduated in 96)! Because my coach made me feel like each and every one of them no matter how mediocre they were meant everything. Beyond my running accomplishments if it weren't for him, I never would have even gone to college.

In then nobody except maybe Haile Gebreselassie is satisfied with their final PRs. Teach your kids how to push their own personal limits and let them feel good about it no matter how mediocre of prodigal they are. Make sure eyour 15th man feels just as good when he sets a PB as your first man does and just maybe you light a fire in that kids like my coach did in me.

Schedule some really hard workouts, those who really want it will stay, the lazy ones will quit.

Also take them to a meet against very good competition, and you'll see that they will wake up, and get motivated.

Wow what a mess that last post is! You can see how badly I needed an athletic scholarship to get to college. Wish there was an edit feature:)

90% of high school coaching is convincing the kids to care, so your question is essentially: "How do I coach a high school team?"

Some advice:

Have the distance group meet somewhere fun to run once every couple weekends.

Get your school to fund the team to go to a good invite, but only bring the most dedicated athletes.

Run relay races in place of workouts once in a while.

Weed out the downers with weekend practices. Kick off the ones that don't show up.

Drive them far from school and leave them to run back...

In xc, time trials were always a huge motivator for the team. Our coach would build up the anticipation by telling us about a week or two in advance when they were gonna be. Everyone on the team knew that top 7 finish at time trials was what had to be done to be varsity at the first meet. And coach always made it known that top 7 times at each meet would be varsity at the next one.

Sure there were kids who still didn't care, but the competitive ones always found a way to put in some good effort to be on varsity.

Nights before meets, we'd have pasta dinners and they were lots of fun. Brought on good team morale. Our varsity squad would have a separate get together after and watch Prefontaine or any other inspirational movies. So that was another incentive. But I think that was implemented by the guys and not the coach.

There are some great suggestions on this thread. I coached at a very small school and getting kids out for the team (at one point, I had 20% of the school running xc) and getting them to improve is really important, but I think it is the same for all schools. CARE about the kids - yes, take that one kid who is motivated and work with him specially - but also always give out praise to others. It is amazing what believing in someone can do. I ache for my own child whose coach never connected with any of the kids - I was lucky to have a coach who saw potential in me - and never stopped believing in me. Yeah, you will get burned sometimes, but the rewards in encouraging all the kids (not just those with talent) are immense. There is such satisfaction in having some kid come back to you years later to thank you for fostering them and encouraging them - and finding out that they are runners for life.

Go to big or fun meets with the kids - to inspire them and to have fun. We used to go to an immense xc race (complete with mud pit) and the kids were so motivated to go on that trip. (My daughter's team was "too serious" for that kind of meet).

It may take a while, but you can build your team with your enthusiasm, encouragement and genuine interest in the kids. Good luck!

PS Make sure the workouts are appropriately hard - not overwhelming for their ability, but workouts that will get them to improve.

What I do is separate my team. I coach the boys and have a roster of 30 kids approximately. Since I go to a lot of out of town meets I only travel with 6 guys. So everybody is trying to get a spot and that drives the team. This has help drive competition and up the standard in the camp. Especially now that I have 4 national elite athlete, therefore there is only 2 spot. So the concept is only reward the hard worker with the taking them to the big meets(Invitational, Nationals, etc).

Maybe I'm off the mark, but the straightforward answer is communicating more openly and clearly with your team. You can't impose your emotions about competitive running on the kids, but you can understand what makes them tick and work towards helping them use running to achieve some of their own goals.

Maybe I am young and naive, but in high school especially, I think the role of coach is more important as a role model and a guiding light. High-level competition is great to create a common goal, but its secondary to the overall benefit of the kids - and to reach them, you need to create a positive experience. If you can connect with them, you are in a better position to work with them, not against them.

As others have talked about disciplining them or trying to force them into 'showing' interest - I'm not sure about the correct approach there. The guys who want your attention will work for it.

Passion is actually pretty contagious. I noticed that kids respond really well to me when I'm being enthusiastic.