Talking about whether he seems competitive or not seems besides the point. It's like asking a guy in Tokyo how his favorite baseball team is doing right now. It has to be the last thing on anybody's mind when they hear him speak.
The overwhelming sense that I get whenever he talks is that he is totally bats.
The overwhelming sense that I get whenever he talks is that he is totally bats.
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Yea, this is not good! He seems to be getting slower by the race. If you're going to try and run at a "World Class Level" you simply cannot just coach yourself - "No man is an island!" This kind of strategy does'nt work for anyone, anywhere! No matter how much faith you have in the Lord! I'm a Christian too but it's almost like he's trying to put "God" to the test, rather than himself (?) humm.
malmo wrote:
59:43 1 NC Houston TX 14 Jan 2007
62:35 3 New York NY 16 Aug 2009
61:52 1 ING Philadelphia PA 20 Sep 2009
64:08 2 Tempe AZ 17 Jan 2010
63:56 13 ING Philadelphia PA 19 Sep 2010
62:20 2 NC Houston TX 29 Jan 2011
63:53 17 New York, NY Mar 20, 2011
2:08:24 7 Flora London 22 Apr 2007
2:09:02 1 OT New York NY 3 Nov 2007
2:06:17 5 Flora London 13 Apr 2008
2:12:33 10 OG Beijing 24 Aug 2008
2:09:40 3 BAA Boston MA 20 Apr 2009
2:10:36 4 ING New York NY 1 Nov 2009
2:08:41 4 BAA Boston MA 19 Apr 2010
Re-ordered chronologically to help me understand the progression better.
not an obsessive follower of Ryan but more than a casual one. I'm wondering if the joy of running has gone by the wayside. I think the clock may be ticking if he doesn't find his way back to some faster time.
If I were coaching him, I would consider getting him into some track races - the guy is close to 4:00, 5000 is in teens, don't know a 10000 time - some change of (competitive) scenery. Isn't he about 29-30y. I doubt he's feeling real great about his performances - gotta figure out a way to get the 'feeling' and the grrr back. Hard to see this happen
Maybe he just stinks at the half marathon - except for the one 59:43 his times are mediocre. There doesn't seem to be a regular decline in his marathoning.
Just to help my perspective wrote:
malmo wrote:59:43 1 NC Houston TX 14 Jan 2007
62:35 3 New York NY 16 Aug 2009
61:52 1 ING Philadelphia PA 20 Sep 2009
64:08 2 Tempe AZ 17 Jan 2010
63:56 13 ING Philadelphia PA 19 Sep 2010
62:20 2 NC Houston TX 29 Jan 2011
63:53 17 New York, NY Mar 20, 2011
2:08:24 7 Flora London 22 Apr 2007
2:09:02 1 OT New York NY 3 Nov 2007
2:06:17 5 Flora London 13 Apr 2008
2:12:33 10 OG Beijing 24 Aug 2008
2:09:40 3 BAA Boston MA 20 Apr 2009
2:10:36 4 ING New York NY 1 Nov 2009
2:08:41 4 BAA Boston MA 19 Apr 2010
Re-ordered chronologically to help me understand the progression better.
Let's say the 59:43 and 2:06:17 were outliers, anomolies, lightning in a bottle. Those once in a lifetime performances are simply that.
Then his "bad" performances don't seem so catastrophic. Maybe he is simply not as good as everyone supposes. Possible?
Seems like a bad idea to coach yourself when you're a head case. You can be a successful head case if you have a coach to corral your bad habits. I feel badly for him. Hope he can figure it out.
no one wrote:
If I were coaching him, I would consider getting him into some track races - the guy is close to 4:00, 5000 is in teens, don't know a 10000 time - s
If I were coaching him I'd have done that years ago. He ran 3:42 in high school after all!
Based on his past comments, it suggests he may have symptoms of parasympathetic overtraining and is trying to find his way back while training. Salazar probably went through the same thing. Recovery can take weeks or even months if ever. I wish him the best.
malmo wrote:
no one wrote:If I were coaching him, I would consider getting him into some track races - the guy is close to 4:00, 5000 is in teens, don't know a 10000 time - s
If I were coaching him I'd have done that years ago. He ran 3:42 in high school after all!
Your response here answers the question of not knowing what to make of Hall's performances.
Ryan Hall = fine talent, good, not great college career, post college success, attention, money, a little more success, more money, loss of focus, decline in performances, looks for answers, chooses to go outside his environment that provided success, gets slower.... the story isn't finished but a happy (running) ending isn't looking very likely.
He'll be happy with Sarah, his family and his faith.
Maybe running less mileage + running faster workouts than he's ever run before (or so he says) = he's in better track shape than he is marathon shape. Maybe drop Boston, and either do the 10000m at Stanford or at the Pre classic?
Then lies down to die? It is a weak race for him.
willy k wrote:
The big elephant sits wherever it wants.
If he keeps this up, I don't think he will continue to get these nice checks for race appearances.
From Twitter:
"Rough day...but still looking forward to Boston a month from now...thanks to the great crowd support in NYC today. Always love racing here."
Should be interesting to see his results in Boston.
London is like Chicago...super fast. I think Hall will be fine. I think it would be better for his psyche to do some different disciplines (ie XC and Track) knowing his eventual goal is a faster marathon. You don't have to drop these things and solely devote yourself to the marathon (for racing) to run a good marathon. With the marathons/roads so much can be attributed to the weather and course...I think if he at least got out and ran XC, where you simply race, this would help out. But as mentioned...his marathons seem to be fine. His goal is a fast Boston...not a fast NYC half.
Hall ran HM 64:08 in Jan 2010, then ran 2:08.41 in Boston. I'll make judgement after Boston.
Running is very simple at any level and he is just complicating it.He just thinks to much and gets confused.It is all about the overload process..feed the body..rest the body and repeating the process over the span of the desired commitment and the number of miles and alternative training is a matter of opinons.It is that simple,but putting it together requires knowledge of cause and effect relationship.......
If you want to do something you have never done before,you have to be willing to become some one you have never been before.To change those conditions of your life you must be willing to correct the thinking that created those conditions.The key to your SUCCESS lies only in what you don't know that you don't know.If you continue to think like you have always thought,you will continue to get what you have always got.Is it enough? THE GREATEST PLEASURE IN LIFE IS IN DOING WHAT PEOPLE SAY YOU CAN NOT DO.Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to SUCCESS when they gave up.Will YOU?The past does not equal the future.The only thing that counts is deciding what you want today and then focus your attention consistently in a direction and in a way that produces the RESULTS THAT YOUR COMMITTED TO.It is your time now to consider what fork in the road you want to take and travel.TAKE YOUR TIME NOW.This is the cross road.Choose wisely.Good luck.
Coach
Not a Fan wrote:
Hall ran HM 64:08 in Jan 2010, then ran 2:08.41 in Boston. I'll make judgement after Boston.
He did that a few weeks after a break and before any workouts.
Insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. That seems to be the case with Ryan. His workouts and training always seem to be the same and now the results are about the same. Sure there is value in the repitition and monotony, but after a while you've got to mix it up a bit. He should definitely not be afraid to train for some shorter races.
I'll bet he was doing considerably faster training prior to his half marathon AR. Maybe not the month before, but definitely in the 1-3 years before.
Patrick Makau- 1:03:51 at RAK Half Marathon