NIKE OREGON PROJECT

Are you serious? I can't believe you are dogging Hansons! What have you done over the past few years while Hansons has consistently had guys on U.S. teams, placed 3 in the top ten at the marathon trials, had major breakthroughs (sell, etc.), placed a guy in the top 50 at world cross. Seriously, what have you done? You obviously have a loser mentality.

The fact of the matter is that the best distance runners in the U.S. have come from tough midwestern weather. Diemer, Kennedy, Croghan, Virgin, etc. Maybe you don't want it bad enough.

What an amazing post. This should be printed out and pasted on the foreheads of everyone of these spoiled wannabee pussys. Self-responsibility! Swallow those words, shit it out, then swallow it again. Maybe then this generation will toughen up.

I didn't mean to dog on Hanson's. I was actually recruited by one of the guys from there before it was even truly incepted (or at least in its beginning stages). I love the idea and I didn't mean to imply anything negative towards what they've done.

I guess you're right. I suck. Whatever. My point wasn't to be bitter about my getting rejected. My point was that it's a shame that Alberto picks and chooses (poorly) who is on the team. Maybe I shouldn't have been. But why aren't Hauser, Lane, Riley, Meb, etc. on the Nike Oregon Project? You can't say none of them wouldn't have been interested (maybe NOW they wouldn't be).

So you can rag on me...whatever. I made decisions that I stand by and I'm truly not bitter...maybe more disappointed in Nike and this "project" even as a spectator?

As far as Team Minnesota--as I said, didn't exist (neither did ZAP) in the time frame I'm talking about. But other than Luke Watson, I don't even know who's on it. Nike Farm Team I was strongly considering, but things just didn't work out. Most of the guys you're referring in Palo Alto to have to bunk up like the frat guys I was referring to (even Lunn lives with a few roommates).

And when I say frat house, I don't mean the negative frat connotation--I mean more than 2-3 guys living together. Not bad--just not for me and my goals and lifestyle needs (yes, you're right, I'm not willing to sacrafice everything for running---I already heard you--I suck).

So I'm a bitch. I'm sure you all could've smoked me, and Alberto is a genius for not picking me and choosing such other great and deserving athletes.

You didn't answer the most important question. What have you done since? or What are you running now?

NIKE . wrote:

I didn't mean to dog on Hanson's. I was actually recruited by one of the guys from there before it was even truly incepted (or at least in its beginning stages). I love the idea and I didn't mean to imply anything negative towards what they've done.

.

People are too sensitive, even our defenders. I didn't take what you were saying as a put down and even if I did, so what. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I do have a couple of corrections though.

The houses are available for those that choose them, but are not mandatory. Clint Verran lives with his wife in a house of their own. Mike Franko rents a house for himself and his girlfriend. A couple of guys have opted to live in an apartment. Carl Rundell owns his own home.

Employment is not mandatory. Especially now with the Brooks bonus's many guys don't need the employment.

We have four seasons which means that we are prepared to race in 4 seasons. We get zero lake effect snow. It does snow but it is not as extreme as many areas that surround us. If you train in 68-72 degrees and zero humidity 100% of the time, then you will race well in those conditions only. Distance running is about raising your pain tolerance and 68-72 degrees 100% of the time creates softness.

There are several other perceptions that just aren't true but that is ok too (at least they are noticing us). You must visit too appreciate what a great training area we have.

Best of luck in your future running career,

Kevin Hanson

Nike . , if you want it bad enough, do it yourself. if you want it bad enough, you don't need a program, or a stipend, or a shoe contract. if you want it bad enough, you do what it takes to kick everyone else's ass. train hard, train smart. if you're not prepared to make sacrifices, damn near sacrificing everything, you'll never see sub 28 or sub 2:10, never.

seems to me you're looking for the perfect situation. forget it. no athlete has everything, especially runners. why would you waste energy in being disappointed in Nike. Nike doesn't give a shit about you. Nike barely gives a shit about their own athletes, especially their runners.

who cares what Alberto is doing, who cares what Team Minnesota is doing, or Hanson's, who cares what this guy is doing for speed workouts or that guy is doing for long runs, etc.

The bottom line is: If you want it bad enough, do it yourself. and no stipend or group or team is ultimately going to do it for you. sorry. see you at the trials...

what the sheik said is the right answer. grow up and go get a real job. start contributing to society. college is over for all you wanna be post collegiate grads.

I guess you're right, camel jockey and sheik,....that is...if you suck.

I think I see what NIKE is trying to say. His point is that NOP does not have the best athletes in its program. As far as Nike projects are concerned, that is unusual. As mentioned already, Nike gets guys like Lance Armstrong, Michael Jordan, Andre Agassi..... Perhaps those names should not be mentioned, because they are involved in very different sports. REGARDLESS, forget about NIKE's lack of whatever. He is merely asking why NOP isn't as good as it could be.

contributing to society? what the hell is that? go wear a stripped suit, work 9-5 driving home in your silver volvo...bang your wife with her breast implants, with Ruff the sheep dog scratching at the door to go and take a piss in your tru green fertilized hegde rows.

hey sheik - go mow your already pristine lawn. the rest of us with dreams will go out and try for an Olympic team. or for a Personal Best. or just to do or be someone slightly different.

Go have a Coors and watch the ballgame and kiss my

ass...or George Bush's ass...or your stainless steel blender's ass...

name your goddamn kid bob or bobby or bill

i'm going for a run

Whispering Sneaker wrote:

I think I see what NIKE is trying to say. His point is that NOP does not have the best athletes in its program. As far as Nike projects are concerned, that is unusual. As mentioned already, Nike gets guys like Lance Armstrong, Michael Jordan, Andre Agassi.....

Because Nike never developed any of those athletes. They bought them once they were superstars and then did a great job of marketting them. Nike knows nothing about development and only started this program for marketting purposes. I think it has been a great success in those terms. They took the best guy from WCAP (Dan Browne) for attention. They took the best guy from Hansons (Chad Johnson) for attention. It had nothing to do with development. They took the best college potential for the marathon (Tom McCardle) for attention. I do not feel bad for the 28:30 guy that didn't get accepted into the program, I feel sorry for the guys that had dreams of greatness that have been accepted.

Whispering Sneaker wrote:

I think I see what NIKE is trying to say. His point is that NOP does not have the best athletes in its program. As far as Nike projects are concerned, that is unusual. As mentioned already, Nike gets guys like Lance Armstrong, Michael Jordan, Andre Agassi.....

nike has el g, tons of kenyans, gail devers, marion jones, seemingly every u.s. sprinter, stacy dragila, and bob kennedy, as well as supporting the farm team (say what you will about them). they've also got webb, meb, and a host of other u.s. distance guys. seems as if nike actually has almost every athlete of note in our sport.

just because american distance running blows, doesn't mean nike has no committment to the sport or doesn't get the top names.

camel jocky wrote:

what the sheik said is the right answer. grow up and go get a real job. start contributing to society. college is over for all you wanna be post collegiate grads.

I have to agree with anti-socialite. What do you mean by "start contributing to society?"

Without lying, please tell me what you do that truly contributes to society? That's not a slam, as most of us don't truly contribute to society. There's only so many doctors (who don't all contribute to society), fire fighters, teachers, etc. I'd like to think that in selling fitness equipment (my job), I'm helping people (and therefore society) - but c'mon, I'm a salesman!

And what exactly does your last "sentence" mean - "college is over for all you wanna be post collegiate grads?" When one graduates from college, doesn't one automatically become a post collegiate grad? So one wouldn't have to be a "wanna be," one would just "be" a post collegiate grad.

BDG

I think that NOP has proved a lot to "the running society"

They have proved:

1. Money is not the answer (who has more than Nike)

2. Gimmicks are not the answer (I mean training aids)

3. A former great athlete does not make a great coach

4. Even Foreign born americans understand solicitation

That is no small contribution to society.

when did nike get gretzky...he was part of hesplier, not nike.

"Dave Davis? Ahman Dirks? Who the hell are these guys? I just had a discussion with my significant other and she made a remark about, "well 13:36 or 38 (Johnson and Donnelly) isn?t that bad." But is it good? Have these guys improved?...."

NIKE:

I don't wish to state my opinion of the Nike Oregon project, as I really don't know much at all about it. However, one of the guys you mention, Ahman Dirks, I know a little about, having seen him locally and met him on several occasions. I think if you knew his background, you'd have to mark him down as a success story for the Oregon project. I don't know the exact details of his running career, but I think it was about like this: went to University of Puget Sound, pretty good runner on the regional level, but I doubt he ever ran much under 14:30 for a 5000. I think he was more of a 1500 runner, with a PR in the mid to high 3:40's if I recall correctly. Post-graduating he was just sort of running for himself, and eventually started training with the Oregon project guys. Now I don't know what his arrangement with them was or is, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't actually a "member" of the group, and wasn't recruited. He was just a guy who was fast enough to run some of their workouts, thus useful enough to have around. I believe he actually benefitted quite a lot from being around Salazar, as Salazar basically let him know he was kidding himself with the training he had previously been doing, and got him to start running 100 mile weeks on a regular basis. He's become a much better distance runner over the last couple of years, turning in a 13:53 indoors or thereabouts. I saw that he ran 13:39 down at Mt. SAC, which I think is actually a big breakthrough for him. I guess he's running well enough now for the Project to associate his name with them.

So basically, it seems that for him, the Oregon Project helped him tremendously, turning him from a fairly talented but inconsistent and poorly trained runner into a guy on the verge of being a true stud. And isn't that the goal of all these training groups? As far as Dave Davis goes, I don't know all that much about him, but you make it sound like he's a total unknown. I'm pretty sure he qualified for the World XC team, maybe even at both distances, a couple of years ago just out of college, so whatever you think of him, you can at least understand that he would have seemed like a good runner for the Oregon Project to take in. As for whether he has benefitted, I have no idea.

Anyway, I assume you weren't trying to insult them personally, just wondering who they were and why they were on the team. In Ahman's case at least, the Oregon Project seems to have been a success. And Dan Brown seems to be thriving, so I guess you would have to conclude that the group has had at least 2 success stories.

This group was designed for one purpose (according to Salazar in about 200 interviews). CREATE AMERICAN MARATHONERS. If that is the goal then they can only be judged by that event. Other arguments simply cloud the real issue. It is now a convenient spin for failure.

It is interesting to hear the "they need more time" argument when Alberto has always claimed that americans wait too long to jump into the marathon. Which is it? When can we expect to see Dirks marathon debut?

Ahman is actually a runner for the Bowerman Athletic Club who trains with the NOP. You are correct, NOP has helped him tremendously and I am confident he will grab the USATF "A" standard shortly.

An earlier post in this thread stated that the rest of the NOP runners were beat by US college runners. Well, NCAAs are in June and many are trying to get a qualifier at one of the top distance carnivals in the nation. NOP? Nice to grab a fast time, but July is the goal, so your training cycle is a little different.

Finally, lots of talk about the house on Westover, but Browne bought a house in Beaverton and now lives out there.

Talk about the hinterlands. Can't believe a single guy is living out there. What's he drive? A minivan? Beaverton is suburbs on steroids. Disgusting. Why isn't in the NW hills of PDX close to Forest Park where he can train. Living in Beaverton means he has to drive everywhere. What a poor choice.