'Stretching is for old farts who don't know any better'
What about Bolt he does stretches before a race. Ive seen his coach stretch out his h/s's before most of his races
Ethiopians do dynamics (I saw them doing this 20 yrs ago, well 18) but they also do dynamics + stretches after running
Views on these things are always to extreme - its either or stretching or non. Usually somewhere inbetween is most likely the answer
Any suggestions on stretching routines (w/links)?
I don't stretch b/c I can't decide what I should stretch...and I don't have time to stretch everything.
Shalane doesn't stretch at all. None.
A couple of people did studies showing that serious, prolonged static stretching (e.g. 2 bouts of PNF stretches, contract then relax) reduced muscle tone and slightly reduced max power in a test immediately afterwards.
So, as usual, everyone overinterprets these things and says all static stretching is redundant.
A normal runner in my day used to do 15m jog, then maybe 5min stretching (with maybe 30sec max on one muscle), then a bunch of drills (high knees, heel flicks, bounds) then strides, which would have the exact opposite effect and bring you back to being bouncy for your race.
Here's how I think about it: yes, the ideal is dynamic warmups before and static stretching after. But if I feel a particular muscle is a little tighter than it should be, I will most definitely give it a little stretch pre-training if that helps restore normal mobility. And I think almost every track athlete I know instinctively (and my parents' dog, come to think of it) does the same...
eurodonkey wrote:
If I feel a particular muscle is a little tighter than it should be, I will most definitely give it a little stretch pre-training if that helps restore normal mobility. And I think almost every track athlete I know instinctively (and my parents' dog, come to think of it) does the same...
ah, stretching: the religion of the old distance runners. No amount of science could prove to these guys that stretching is worthless/dangerous.
or 'stretching: the opiate of old distance runners'
They were taught to stretch as kids so darn it, it is part of running.
Although to be fair, that big USATF study found that if a distance runner has been stretching for years, he or she should not start. But there is no benefit to starting.
Kenyans do strench and helps alot. There is not an absolute yes or no answer. Don't tell me that studies have been done and proven that stretching don't help. We all have different muscles. Some people need to loosen their muscles before a run so that they don't get stiff and strech after a cool down to flex their muscles and body for the next run. Alot of runners from western countries are lost too much talk about this and that and this. Kenyans strech when they have an opportunity to. Kenyans don't strech before the beginning of morning runs because it is hard to strech muscles when they have not been active. They do start their runs by jogging at a snails pace in order to loosen the muscles a bit, they do strech at the end of each run. During the workouts at the track, they warmup and then streach and after the workouts they cool down and then strecth. The notion that streching is useless is only some propaganda western runners came up with bc they do not want to strech. I run in college and everytime we were about to work out, we had to warmup and strech but the Americans were always dying to jump into the workouts without much streching, well, they don't last long before they start trailing because they pay attention to small basics like streching and starting slow and fast. The Kenyans know that.
This anti stretching movement was born by people who don't like to stretch. Callis laziness...whatever you like. You do realize that there are studies out there that say running is bad for you too right?
The fact is...In my 20+ years in the sport I have seen more injury from dynamic exercise than static.
Stretching is good. Ever notice when you pull a muscle or have an injury your first inclination is to stretch.
How many of you have been really tight before a race and didn't stretch? How many have run a race "tight" and run their best.
If stretching works for you...do it. You don't like to do it...don't. But it prevents injury and aids recovery.
The sub 14 5k runner Kenyan on my team never stretches. Not before a run. Not after. NEVER.
Ryan hall only does dynamic and active stretching. He doesn't do static stretches.
Steve Moneghetti has said that if you can touch your toes then you aren't doing enough mileage (and he was only partly joking ...)
helping my team maybe wrote:
The sub 14 5k runner Kenyan on my team never stretches. Not before a run. Not after. NEVER.
This doesn't mean it is bad for you. I know sub 28 guys who do. It is a choice.
yepper wrote:
ah, stretching: the religion of the old distance runners. No amount of science could prove to these guys that stretching is worthless/dangerous.
Excuse me, I AM an old distance runner. Sure, we'd talk about it, but we'd never actually DO it. I mean, we'd lecture each other about the importance of doing 30sec on each muscle, and then do about 3 seconds while we stood around yacking before sessions...
Paul Tergat and Kenya National Crosss Country Team stretches. Check this video from 4.00, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QApyq4bops.
"I'll do more stretching when they make it an Olympic sport." --Alberto Salazar
So, basically, the two programs in the US that have been most successful internationally (along with Mahon/Mammoth Lakes) either don't stretch or don't stretch very much. The same thing applies to Kostre's program, for which a video has been posted on letsrun a couple of times showing the Ethiopian National Team doing a long dynamic warmup and not stretching.
The science is quite clear on this. There is NO evidence that static stretching reduces injuries. There IS evidence that static stretching reduces power in lifters and speed in sprinters for 30-60 minutes after static stretching. There is recent evidence that static stretching reduces RE in long distance runners (previously, the evidence was limited to speed and power events).
As obsessed with new and scientific methods as Salazar is, I think it's fair to say that if there was ANY evidence that stretching can help ANY of his athletes, he would be promoting it.
Dynamic warmups simply work better.
I know this is only anecdotal, and I'm no elite, but I have gone through periods where I stretched before running, after, before and after, and not at all. I have never noticed a difference one way or the other.
Nor Cal wrote:
How many of you have been really tight before a race and didn't stretch? How many have run a race "tight" and run their best.
I don't think I've ever felt tight. I don't even know what that's supposed to mean. Maybe you guys feel tight all the time from over-stretching?
What is "RE"?
The best runners in the world stretch. Vivian Cheruiyot, Linet Masai, Micah Kogo, Mark Kiptoo. watch this clip http://www.runnerstribe.com/speaker/main/video/id/4476-Micah-Kogo/vid/352302-Pre-Race-with-the-Kenyans-of-Pace-Sports
some great runners stretched one time != the best runners in the world stretch != you should do the same. They also run 140+/week. Which do you think is more important?
horses dont stretch.