Are Treadmill miles, still relevant miles?

13.07 runner Marius Bakken ran a significant amount ("speedwork") on zheh mill.

fffffffuuuuuuuuu wrote:

i've always found it to be way harder to run on a treadmill than outside, mostly just due to boredom.. 6 miles at 7 minute pace on a treadmill is really mentally taxing for me, and it feels "harder" than going out and running 8 at 6:15 pace outside.. part of it is just mental, but running is a high % mental anyways, and if your head isn't in it, it makes it a lot harder

i also have trouble running fast (sub 5:45 pace or so) on a treadmill because i'm constantly worrying i'm going to hit the front of it with my foot, or step off the side, so i'm always looking down and trying to make sure my stride is alright, which also makes it tougher

This has been my experience. I would prefer to run circles in a closet than I would to run on a treadmill. Dreadmills are not my friend.

Amen to boredom. I can leave my house and run for as far as my fitness will allow and never think about the time. But on the mill, all I see is that little digital counter, and no matter how fast you go, it moves slow. It's a necessary evil, but evil nonetheless.

athletics fan and runner wrote: Dreadmills are not my friend.

Hey watch it.

I always put mine on an incline and speed it up a bit to make sure I am hitting a certain pace. Some days (or lets say most), I find the mill to be more difficult overall. Especially doing speed work, if you think about it--you're doing a "constant" speed pace versus on a track or road, you will get variations of speed that will "average" out the same speed pace you did on the mill.

For example, if I did a 6:49 pace on the mill for one mile (yeah, I know that's slow according to here) and did that on the road, I would get best pace/speed for short periods--maybe the wind slowed me down? or stride form got little sloppy, etc but yet I still ended up with the same 6:49 pace for the mile because I made up the speed somewhere and yet the same speed mile on the mill felt harder to me. I'm just thinking out loud for the explanation?

I think the treadmill is a good supplement, I wouldn't want to do all my runs on it but I won't hesitate to do most of them if I have to especially during the hot summer months.

It is NOT necessary to put a 2% grade on the treadmill to simulate outside running.

1. Lack of wind resistance does not become a factor until high speeds (5 min/mile or faster)

2. Your internal body temperature will be higher on the treadmill and therefore your heart rate will be higher.

3. Doing treadmill running at a grade can actually do harm. It is quite possible that over time you will develop muscle imbalances and hamstring problems.

4. Contrary to what some on this thread are saying, the treadmill does not "do the work for you."

Clearing the bs up wrote:

It is NOT necessary to put a 2% grade on the treadmill to simulate outside running.

4. Contrary to what some on this thread are saying, the treadmill does not "do the work for you."

interesting. what i spoke to earlier was research done by Jack Daniels. It may NOT be necessary, but his conclusion is that roughly 1.5% equates to outdoor PE and VO2/HR at similar speeds. You're absolutely correct on the propensity to develop posterior chain issues, including the hip flexors. Stretching is a must.

Likewise, I must have missed where someone wrote about 'do the work for.' I think what I've read is an ability of some, but not all, to check out while on the treadmill and just clip along at their pace. At least in my case that's not to infer the mill is doing the work for me, but that there is a definite rhythm and consistency of pace when on the mill as opposed to the road and a coterminous ability to check out mentally and allow things to just go.

I have had those runs where they just drag. It's bad, but I've also had those runs where it did feel like I was on a ride and all I had to do was hop up in the air 180 times a minute.

in college from november until after indoor nationals in march i did all of my running an workouts on treadmills and sprint treadmills and ran 1:49 indoors and 1:48 early outoors...maybe it makes a bit of a difference for people putting in more mileage but we got in plenty of good work and i idnt notice any ill effects of the treadmill training aside from it being boring.

for speed workouts we would either be on the sprint treadmill or doing repeats on the normal treadmill at 12 mph with steep inclines...but even outoors i wasnt doing more than 25-30 miles a week so again, may be a bit dfferent experience for someone training for a 10k

Anyone ever developped knee tendonitis from the treadmil?

I do especially when i keep it flat (so no incline) anyone else have this? I haven't tried a light incline yet.

This only happens if i train the treadmil for a couple of days.

I think that a TM is better than not running at all, but not as good as running outside. My doctor (who is a marathoner) recently told me that they're not great for the feet because of the continual contact in the exact same way, all the time.

What is a "sprint treadmill" vs "normal treadmill"

I think it's just a treadmill capable of going at faster speeds.

All treadmills I've ever been on top out at 5 min pace, 12 mph.

Avocado's Number wrote:

I ran a 2:18 marathon after a month of nothing but running on a treadmill at a very steep incline to avoid aggravating an injury. (I probably also did a fair amount of deep-water running, which was my other main training alternative during periods of injury.) Running a marathon on a hard asphalt road after a month of low-impact training was tough on my connective tissue, but the treadmill running kept me in fine metabolic condition, and running all those treadmill miles on a steep incline helped me to run the race largely on my forefoot with greatly reduced heel strike.

During my peak years, treadmill running was a big part of my training. My treadmill sessions were generally very intense, with a lot of running at a steep incline (perhaps 15-20% grade) or a quick pace (sub-5 miles).

__________________________________

From what I read, you are probably a 2:12 marathoner who needs to re-train properly.

Ask yourself this:

Does the ground move at a constant pace when I am in mid-stride?

Yes, you are gliding somewhat, but the ground is NOT moving at a constant pace ( like say 6 min per mile) in between strides.

Therefore, treadmill running serves a purpose for cold weather running. But take it for what it is worth, that's all!

I personally can not stand running on a treadmill, so I always seem to runn harder on a treadmill to end my run quicker by simply pushing the pace button. I adjust, and my overall pace is always much faster than my road runs.

It just does not make sense. If I ran that pace I programed, I would be much more depleted on the roads for sure.

You must take into account that on a treadmill the road is doing some of the work, and you do not have to run any inclines if you don't want to.

I ran very well with a mix of treadmill, indoor track, and generally slow outdoor running in difficult conditions in Vermont a couple years ago and I am running well now again with a couple treadmill sessions per week, including one tempo, a) to get my legs familiar with mid to high five minute pace again for tempos, which has really worked, and b) to get the legs moving at a decent pace, like 9.3mph, but still easy, as part of my run on overly slow days outdoors.

and that's with no incline, because I started getting shin splints the first time I tried the 1 pct incline on a tmill.

Trained wrote:

Ask yourself this:

Does the ground move at a constant pace when I am in mid-stride?

Yes, you are gliding somewhat, but the ground is NOT moving at a constant pace ( like say 6 min per mile) in between strides.

You must take into account that on a treadmill the road is doing some of the work, and you do not have to run any inclines if you don't want to.

No. Just because the belt is moving at some pace doesn not mean that your body is moving at the same pace. Your body will move slightly backward if you slow down midstrike and then forward as you propel yourself.

Think of what it would be like if the treadmill were infinitely long and wide and you were in the dark; you would be able to tell that you were on a treadmill and not just running on ground. Running on a treadmill is exactly the same as running minus the wind effects. The reference frame is just different

'I do ~75% of my mileage on treadmills with a 1% incline'

You need to turn round and do some downhill miles for variety

I run a good amount on the treadmill these days Mon-Fri. Often twice a day, 5-9 miles at a clip. I find it SIGNIFICANTLY harder then running the same pace outdoors... ESPECIALLY on anything around MP or faster.

I don't think I could run more then 7-8 miles on a treadmill at 6:00 pace, but I'm pretty confident I can run about that for a marathon outdoors.

I know for a fact I can run 5:50 pace or faster today for a 1/2 marathon, and I also know for a fact I can't do that on a treadmill for more then 5 miles.

Imho, treadmill running is just like outdoor running... you need to go by feel and not worry about incline this, pace that...

Treadmill miles have to count more than some "snow miles" we've been running lately. How much are you getting out of a run where you're slipping and sliding your way to a pace that is probably :45/m slower than that effort would have produced under normal conditions? I'll take the treadmill miles over those miles, thanks.

(although, I must admit, I am still doing over 50% of my miles outside, regardless of the conditions.)