Peter Snell Calls US Middle Distance Running "Pathetic"

Snell lives in Texas, so it's not like he gets the 3 year old news across the south Pacific as mentioned earlier. As someone with some Olympic Gold stashed somewhere in his closet, he's probably measuring the U.S. middle distance against a very high standard.

Snell my be a bit myopic and not looking at the potential of the young guys/girls (Wheating in particular and Rowbury on the women's side) but it's still a valid point. Does it matter if Willis attended Michigan? He represents NZ, no matter what, and that was a medal that didn't go to the US.

The crap about others going to other sports is silly. Given the population base of athletes (Millions), the coaching/scholarship structure, numbers of athletes in HS and College T&F it should be a no-brainer that the US has M-D medalists, as they do in the sprints - even with Jamaica - and more of these sprint athletes go to Football, baseball, etc.

Webb, while running fast at times has been a classic failure to this point, and given his hype since the HS 3.53 Mile, perhaps carries the flag to a misunderstanding of the actual M-D situation in the US. Lagat is not representative as he has Olympic medals for Kenya (even if he is now American). While there is hope, even Symmonds has done no better than the now retired Gary Reed (World 2nd, OlyG 4th), and he's Canadian for god's sake. the posters are correct that over 800m the US should constantly have guys running under 1.44 (at least a half-dozen per year) and one at sub-1.42. Heck, Wohlhuter ran 1.43.5(equiv) over 35 years ago and yet this is still seen as a great time in the US with all the money, coaching and fast guys. Something is still wrong in the land of the R,W &B.

halfr wrote:

I don't think Snell called out the US success without acknowledging that the NZ system also has to be looking at what they're doing.

But on the numbers alone:

USA Pop: 300 Million

NZL Pop: 4 Million

Current USA born OG and WC Mid distance medalists: 0

Current NZL born OG and WC Mid distance medalists: 1

NZL has the talent pool to win more medals on a world stage and they need to reassess how to do so, but the USA is really under-performing when it comes to producing international medalists and has a lot more work to do to move from no medals to a realistic per-capita haul.

Is Shannon Rowbury not American born?

The international middle distance field during Snell's time wasn't nearly as talented and deep as it is now. His 1500 and mile PR's are slower than Andrew Wheating's and his 800 PR is slower than that of Nick Symmonds. Just because he managed to pull off a few golds back in the day does not mean he can judge American athletes of the present--especially considering the lack of standout performances from both the British AND those from his own country. Dick move, really.

where's the beef? wrote:The crap about others going to other sports is silly. Given the population base of athletes (Millions), the coaching/scholarship structure, numbers of athletes in HS and College T&F it should be a no-brainer that the US has M-D medalists, as they do in the sprints - even with Jamaica - and more of these sprint athletes go to Football, baseball, etc

drivel

you offer no cogent refutation

a ball sports offers immense more money than track, even for a benchwarmer

& if you hadn't noticed, jamaica is crap at kick-ball, so if that's their main sport, they sure have shit top-end athletes

Heck, Wohlhuter ran 1.43.5(equiv) over 35 years ago and yet this is still seen as a great time in the US with all the money, coaching and fast guys. Something is still wrong in the land of the R,W &B.

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What? Someone is going to try and argue the problem, generically, has been with 'less is more'? No, one could just as easily argue that Lydiardism was a commie plot to destroy America's mid-distance chances for years. Witness Ryan's training, the antithesis of Lydiardism, right? For that matter, witness the training of Rick Wohlhuter, the mid-distance recordholder from the early '70's; Wohlhuter is on record claiming to run no more than 50 miles a week year-round.

What da hey wrote:

The international middle distance field during Snell's time wasn't nearly as talented and deep as it is now. His 1500 and mile PR's are slower than Andrew Wheating's and his 800 PR is slower than that of Nick Symmonds. Just because he managed to pull off a few golds back in the day does not mean he can judge American athletes of the present--especially considering the lack of standout performances from both the British AND those from his own country. Dick move, really.

You're nuts, Snell ran what 3:54? World Record, indicating he was the fastest person at the time no competition to up his game. He even said one of his major goals was to go under 3:50. Modern day tracks, rabbits? I mean please give me a break. Not to mention is 1:44.3 was on a GRASS TRACK 350 meters around.

What da hey wrote:The international middle distance field during Snell's time wasn't nearly as talented and deep as it is now. His 1500 and mile PR's are slower than Andrew Wheating's and his 800 PR is slower than that of Nick Symmonds

he was running on dirt/grass without some kenyan wabbiting to the bell on synthetic in 50.5 or 2'34

he was almost certainly an intrinsic

high-1'42 / 3'30-flat

Shanrow and Alysia are WC medalists born in the USA. Shanrow is from Sacred Heart HS Frisco, Alysia from Canyon HS in Los Angeles.

Lagat may be an import, but he did go through the US system.

I think it is that the best athletes in our high schools are not pursuing track and field most of the time. There is a stud athlete with the potential that either exceeds or rivals that of Andrew Wheating at every high school. It's just that most of the time, these guys end up playing soccer, basketball, football, swimming, etc. Our sport doesn't have the werewithal to get these kids. As a volunteer assistant coach at a large, public high school, I can not tell you how many sub-5 middle school milers and sub 2:10 middle school 800 runners I have seen NEVER run a track race ever again after they enter high school. It's a damn shame.

It's simple...our college system burns out too many of our best runners. Three peaks in 7 months plus multiple events per meet is too much.

The superhuman (Wheating) get through. The ultra talented (Webb) leave early. And others fly under the radar (Symmonds) to have professional success later.

There is a stud athlete with the potential that either exceeds or rivals that of Andrew Wheating at every high school. [/quote]

You are absolutely right. No one seems to realize this. In fact, I would step it up and say there is, on average, MORE THAN ONE male athlete at every high school who is at least as talented as wheating.

In the pe mile, this was very evident to me. As a freshman, there were were about 250 males in my class. There were at least 10 guys in my class who could run mid 5's or less for a mile off sitting on their *sses all summer eating chips and watching tv. Literally no training, and about 10 guys who could go mid 5's in the mile. That's Wheating-esque talent. Then there was the guy who went 4:32 in the 1600 as a junior with a late (november) birthday, off of 15 mpw and no running outside of track season (didnt do xc). Due to horrendous coaching, this guy ended up never progressing and quitting running. What happened to this guy is very common and certainly not the exception.

Most of the big talents I met in high school weren't guys who played football or baseball. Most were people who didn't see any reason why they should go and run "for no reason". Laziness really, more than "oh football and baseball steal all our top athletes". Lebron james is a top athlete but lets face it he was never going to go 3:45 in the mile. Different kind of athlete.

If that quote was from 2000, or 1995, or 1990, Sneel would have a point. What he said is pure unadulterated rubbish. Comparing the result of one New Zealander (a product of the American system) to the Americans is a bit ridiculous.

The steeplechase and the marathon are our weak events right now. All of the others are more than adequately represented on the world stage. If Snell feels that the Americans aren't doing as well as they "should", then perhaps he should articulate exactly what levels of performance is acceptable to him?

That's awfully big talk from a man who's held his country's national record for 800m for almost 50 years.

Jared Lee Loughner wrote:

I sure hope the next time Peter Snell comes to the US that someone doesn't put a cap in his head.

Not funny. I hope your parents straighten you out before you enter the real world, son.

Peter Snells times are impressive, but nothing spectacular. He doesn't have much room to speak.

Distance Time Place Date

800 m 1:44.3 NR Christchurch 1962

1000 m 2:16.6 NR Auckland 1964

1500 m 3:37.6 1964

Mile 3:54.1 1964

They may not seem impressive now, but they were 45 years ago.

suckonthesetinyballs wrote:

Peter Snells times are impressive, but nothing spectacular. He doesn't have much room to speak.

Distance Time Place Date

800 m 1:44.3 NR Christchurch 1962

1000 m 2:16.6 NR Auckland 1964

1500 m 3:37.6 1964

Mile 3:54.1 1964

The Saint wrote:

That's awfully big talk from a man who's held his country's national record for 800m for almost 50 years.

And that's in fact the oldest national record recognized by the IAAF.

People who live in pathetic houses shouldn't throw stones.

Gee, I can't imagine why Mo Farrah wants to come to Albuquerque and train with a pathetic US coach named Salazar.

What Snell and other in the Lydiard cult don't want to face up to is that athletes coached by Renato Canova and Colm O'Connell would wipe the track with every athlete Lydiard ever coached, Snell included. That's what US coaches and athletes are dealing with.

Of the 15 fastest male 1500 runners in the world last year, 7 are from Kenya and 4 are from the USA. What's pathetic is EVERYBODY ELSE.