RE: do people accuse atheletes of doping because they are not good themsleves

I've known two guys, who were rumored to have doped. I watched one of them come out of absolutely nowhere to race a local D1 meet unattached, and they ran something like 8:0X for 3k outdoors in late Feb or early March. Homeboy just looked...unnatural running out there, as if he was just sitting on a red line the entire race. Then last year he pops up in another small road race and takes home an easy $1000. Both times, the same guy just disappeared into obscurity, and never touched any races that had either drug testing, or served as qualifiers for big USATF races. He just stayed under the radar. The accusations against him were made by one-time teammates and close friends.

The other guy who was accused of drug use ended up becoming a good friend of mine. He came into the cross hairs of his accusers because of what seemed like freakish improvement over the course of one season. However, all anyone had to do was sit down with him and learn that he had completely turned his life around, and made the tough choices necessary to start reaping the benefits of his unbelievable talents. No one who spent time training with him, racing with him, or hanging out with him ever knew him to act suspiciously or use any kind of drug.

I never forgot the two. One unjustly accused because of simple improvements and good decision making, while the other popped in and out of obscurity to claim prize money or bragging rights, and always just LOOKED wrong on the track.

Some of us follow the sport and its performances, then think of the folks we know in our own circles that we believe to have doped. We watch the top level runners, guys like Ramzi, or that Russian woman who won 3 high-level mile races last year in the same week (forgot her name), and immediately think of those other ridiculously unnatural performances that we've witnessed before. Then we air our frustrations and accusations on this here message board, knowing that they are not likely to ever be caught by any drug test that WADA is able create. Every once in a while, we get the pleasure of seeing someone who needs to get caught, go down in flames.

It's as simple as that. The accusers on this board are not always just flinging uninformed slander around.

I used to read Joan Nesbit Mabe's blog, but I stopped sometime after her entry "Drug's killed Ryan Shay."

The thesis is basically that Ryan Shay died b/c he worked himself to death trying to keep up with faster (drug-using) runners. It ignores the facts that 1) there may have been other non-doping runners faster than him (there is always someone faster) and 2) he had a cardiac irregularity that killed him, not over-exertion. (the race in which he died was not abnormally fast.)

Granted, the sad state of affairs is that many athletes dope. However, I feel like often those who are quickest to lash out are doing so to cover their own wounds. Joan was an Olympian but had a disappointing performance. She excelled at the sport clearly, but I'm sure that she (like all of us) wonders sometimes if she couldn't have gone further/done better. Even silver-medalists wonder about this.

Similarly, she openly bashed Dean Karnaze's parenting and the fact that he selfishly spent hours away from his family to do his training. People pretty much overlook her extra-marital affair with the UNC athlete she coached (who impregnated her). Yet, she swoops in high and mighty criticizing another athlete's priorities and parenting.

Often the people that are quickest to condemn others do this as a way to avoid dealing with their own defects of character. It is easier to cast stones at others cheating at the sport than to acknowledge guilt and shame that may come with cheating on your marriage.

To say others won unfairly is easier than to say that they were more talented, had better luck, or trained better.

It is always easier to blame others than to admit to our own short-comings.

speaking of drug tests.... how did rashid get under the radar for years then finnally got caught... were the tests years before sorry to say it "faulty"

What a bunch of junk hyperbolic invective from Bitter Critter.

"It is always easier to blame others than to admit to our own short-comings."

Speak for yourself, loser.

Don't project your own character flaws onto others.

I think people do accuse some athletes wrongly yes.

I had a multi-time NCAA champion on my team and future Olympian and the pure talent he had was amazing, inspiring and super frustrating at the same time.

Some of the tempo runs and sessions he did would blow your mind. For example, 49 minute 10 mile tempo run the first week of practice.

There are people out there with massive, massive amounts of talent.

Conte sez in his book it's child's play to get away with doping these days. So suspecting Symmonds, Wheating, Rupp, Eaton, Carmeita Jeter, Roy Halliday, Tim Lincecum, David Oliver, Cliff Lee, Tim Lincecum, etc. is not so out-of-line.

runn wrote:

I think we're talking about two types of people making accusations. I had a friend in the 80's who was a national class sprinter. He told me that Johnson was dirty and Lewis was clean- he knew them both.

OK, an athlete (at that level) making accusations becuase he's pissed is one thing and I can accept that.

Some "fan" who just likes to throw out accusations because someone is fast is not acceptable.

Yes you can and should assume innocence, then we test to prove or disprove it.

If EVERYONE is using, then why bother? There are clean athletes. I really hope Bolt is one. Until (if) he is caught I'm going to trust him and enjoy watching him. If he's caught I'll hate him for it.

This goes for any athlete.

I really just think you people are sheltered and over-simplistic to think anyone who doesn't get caught shouldn't have any suspicion surrounding them. Many people at the top are dirty for the same reason most people believe Lance is dirty: you can't blow away a dirty field and be clean. As the sport goes on longer, it gets more and more likely that the records will be owned by people who are using. If people who set records in the past were dirty and some guy comes and totally blows it away, how can you just assume they're clean. It's so simple-minded to me, and accusing everyone who thinks this way of being bitter is just a testament to your simple-mindedness. Please explain if I am not getting this, but it really seems like you people have a sheltered view of the sport.

And if you can't see a reason to try regardless of that, then I agree, you should just hang it up. I, on the other hand, understand perfectly why I am motivated to keep going. It helps me learn things about myself and others in the sport.

hicham who?

justwondering wrote:

"oh kenenisa bekele just set a new world record"

"DONT YOU GET IT... ITS EPO

seriously pisses me off

Yes. It's the same reason liberals hate businessmen and call them criminals. Just plain, naked envy.

Bump. I would like to see someone answer my question above, as I am not sure I understand why you think I am envious. I'm not.

dr dre wrote:

speaking of drug tests.... how did rashid get under the radar for years then finnally got caught... were the tests years before sorry to say it "faulty"

They improved the test (its as a new test for CERA) and the degree of its analyis

He passed the initial post race test then failed a different test retrospectively

ha, ha.

"Speak for yourself, loser.

Don't project your own character flaws onto others."

This made me laugh.

Sprint Geezer, what brand was that lanced creatine?

Still no answer, huh? I wanna see what you defenders have to say to this. Otherwise, you're all in denial.

no - their accusations have nothing to do with it. They are

upset with cheaters - I would also be had I not been cynical

(man is the biggest mistake of evolution).

First of all, I want to make it absolutely clear that I have no direct evidence that it was "lanced".

In fact, another letsrun poster advanced the idea that it wasn't at all lanced, and that the dramatic improvement in weights was my own doing!

And the manufacturer, of course, would have you believe that their creatine was responsible, being of a superior quality than others.

Whatever it was, it was scary, and I've never personally heard of anything like those gains, anywhere as quickly, with any other brand of creatine, from any source I consider trustworthy (i.e. sources other than self-serving advertising).

The brand was "EAS".

I'm curious, why do you ask? Similar experience?

Remember also, this was now 14 or so years ago, when creatine was new. It was also very pricey, if I remember correctly.

Sprint Geezer, your evidence against Bolt is that he is fast?

That's all you got?

That's not enough. Not by a long long way.

World Records will come down and down and down, with or without drugs. It's inevitable, and no amount of consternation on your part will help you understand this basic fact. You have to look at things differently and understand that strides will get longer, simple as that.

J.O. wrote:

Sprint Geezer, your evidence against Bolt is that he is fast?

That's all you got?

That's not enough. Not by a long long way.

World Records will come down and down and down, with or without drugs. It's inevitable, and no amount of consternation on your part will help you understand this basic fact. You have to look at things differently and understand that strides will get longer, simple as that.

Jon, what is the limit on stride length? There has to be some sort of natural limit. Is that the only factor that goes into faster records?

Mr. Obvious wrote:

J.O. wrote:

Sprint Geezer, your evidence against Bolt is that he is fast?

That's all you got?

That's not enough. Not by a long long way.

World Records will come down and down and down, with or without drugs. It's inevitable, and no amount of consternation on your part will help you understand this basic fact. You have to look at things differently and understand that strides will get longer, simple as that.

Jon, what is the limit on stride length? There has to be some sort of natural limit. Is that the only factor that goes into faster records?

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I have a simple rule of thumb that for every 3 per cent increase in stride length you get a 1 per cent increase in stride rate, because you are moving faster and so naturally your feet are on the ground for less time.

These are the most important measurements we need to focus on. because of their obvious reliability when allied to good endurance.

The limit of stride length? I don't know, but that is so far in the future, I mean hundreds of years in the future of this quickly evolving sport, that it is not something I care to speculate on too much. The ongoing potential for improvement in stride length for all of us is something to be exited about, even if it is mostly ignored in coaching discussions.