Why is it that when American kids run 14:20 we freak out but when Kenyan Kids run 13 minutes we don't care?

MJ- Maybe it is because they ran from early age. Maybe it is because they made you think, they didnt work their asses off, everyday. Maybe its because people think they are genetically better.

...Or maybe you are just making excuses.

M.C. Confusing wrote:

nerp wrote:

Lukas ran 14:18 when he was, I believe, 15. How can you compare that to someone who is 18? Thats a world of difference, African or not.

I wouldn't putport that he is as good as Kipshoge- he certainly isn't. But don't sell him short- he ran a 14:18 in his first track 5k ever, alone, as a freshman in high school. Thats not exactly bad.

He was 16. And there have been 16yo Kenyans that broke 13 (well one at least). However, as someone has stated above, most people arent concerned because as far as we know that 16yo kenyan could be 16, could be 19, could be 21 for all anyone knows.

In all likelihood, he is (or was) older than 16. There is no way in hell a 16 year old of any nationality is running 12:52 for 5k. That's the reason I don't pay attention to them that much. It's not that I don't care because it's a fast time for anyone, but I don't claim to know his real age, and I don't claim that anyone knows. Most likely, he is much older than that, and there's absolutely no reason to defend his purported age. They don't know.

It's funny that you think $200 is easy to come by in Kenya, or that anyone cares about people outside of Kenya who wants to watch enough not to spend the money on something they need more than a camera.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

welcome2america wrote:

because we live in america and we have birth certificates welcome

So Amercian juniors are actually better than Kenyan? If they had accurate birth cert's American (and UK) runners would still be unable to compete with Kenyan juniors

How do you know who is better? Without ages, this whole debate about Kenyan vs. American high school kids is meaningless because we don't know how old these juniors are. How do you know that they're so much better? I'm not saying they're not, but you can't claim to have such knowledge when the info isn't even available to you.

jhsdahf wrote:

their age is an estimate that could be anywhere from 18 to 22

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That must be it. Kenyan junior runners are so good only because they are older than they claim.

And you know this because..? It must be because the Kenyan senior runners are not good. Oh, wait, that's not exactly true, is it. You thus must know this because you have evidence to support your claim. Oh, wait, you don't have that either.

How do you know who is better? Without ages, this whole debate about Kenyan vs. American high school kids is meaningless because we don't know how old these juniors are. How do you know that they're so much better? I'm not saying they're not, but you can't claim to have such knowledge when the info isn't even available to you.

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Ok, lets say that your right and the Africans birth dates are off. Basing off the fact that Kipchoge is still running near his prime we can estimate that right now at the highest age he is 28-29. Ok, so that means at the World Championships at his highest age he was 21-22. Do you really think Verzbicas can improve by 1:02 in the 5k in three years? Manage to outkick Bekele and Hicham El Guerrouj? I think not. He might be running 13:15 at the very best by then but if you are a pro 5k runner you know that 23 second difference at that level is gigantic. Plus, even then he couldn't outkick the Africans. So still your points are mostly invalid.

How do you know who is better? Without ages, this whole debate about Kenyan vs. American high school kids is meaningless because we don't know how old these juniors are. How do you know that they're so much better? I'm not saying they're not, but you can't claim to have such knowledge when the info isn't even available to you.

________________________________________________________

Ok, lets say that your right and the Africans birth dates are off. Basing off the fact that Kipchoge is still running near his prime we can estimate that right now at the highest age he is 28-29. Ok, so that means at the World Championships at his highest age he was 21-22. Do you really think Verzbicas can improve by 1:02 in the 5k in three years? Manage to outkick Bekele and Hicham El Guerrouj? I think not. He might be running 13:15 at the very best by then but if you are a pro 5k runner you know that 23 second difference at that level is gigantic. Plus, even then he couldn't outkick the Africans. So still your points are mostly invalid.

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What your failing to understand here is that America is not going to waste talent. Lukas is going to get the some best coaches in the nation who will not let him burn out.

America has a very small amount of talent and when we get talent we do not let go. We are very catious about this. However in Kenya, they have so much talent that everyone is trained very hard.

Alot of the time they burn out, and burn out bad. However, the good part about this for the Kenyans is that one out of the many that will burn out will suceeed. And, considering just how hard they train their athletes and just how young they do it, they will run very very fast at a young age.

Unfortunately(and a very small chance a very good thing) for the athlete, they are continued to be pushed very very hard because even if you are very good there is still huge amounts of talent out there they can replace you with. Most of the Kenyan athletes eventually burn themselves up and their careers are over. Every so often, a Kenyan like Kipchoge manages to stay near the top, but most the talent is gone in a good 2-3 years.

For America, they take a very pposite approach. If they burn out talent in America that is very very bad for them. So they train them less hard but more consistently and instead of jumping into a world level right after High School have them working through College to try and win NCCA titles.

Then after college, they start slowly building them up by putting them into meets and usually around 25-26 they start accomplishing some things, but never as much as the Africans because the coaches are too afraid of burnout.

For Lukas to be running like he is with this such approach, it is very impressive. He might not be running nearly as good as those Kenyan Kids but slowly he will creep up and start winning. And in my opinion, he will be a great athlete and take many titles.

First of all stop acting like everyone on here only cares about american runners. Most people on this site can tell you all about Kipchoge and Wanjiu. I do pay attention to all the best runners in the world even when they are jr's. I was tracking Bekele when he won the jr world cross championships. I remember thinking this kid is going to be something. Maybe I didn't start 14 threads on lets run but I did notice. The reason I and most people on this site do track these elite runners is because we are fans of the sport. We may not be rooting for the other team or want to talk about them all the time but we definitely know who they are. Do you think that basketball conversations in boston should only focus on Kobe? They know who he is and respect his ability but at the end of the day they want to talk about the celtics more of the time than they want to talk about LA. Its all about the home team right?

I don't think the OP thinks that everyone thinks that everyone believes American Runners are better, but due to the fact that alot of people have been talking about Verzbicas and Ritz recently he's just pointing out that American Runners get alot of credit and Africans really don't. I have to kind of agree with OP on this one. Why are we rooting for a High School Runner when so many Kenyan High School runners have done better?

It's funny how people always say that the Kenyans only get their ages wrong because they simply don't know how old they are.

I wonder how many times they get their age wrong the other way and are actually much younger than the age they give?

Never?

The Real UncleB wrote:

jhsdahf wrote:

their age is an estimate that could be anywhere from 18 to 22

.

That must be it. Kenyan junior runners are so good only because they are older than they claim.

And you know this because..? It must be because the Kenyan senior runners are not good. Oh, wait, that's not exactly true, is it. You thus must know this because you have evidence to support your claim. Oh, wait, you don't have that either.

.

Cause I'm a racist Asian gotajaboo. That's why. Going get me a meatball hoagie to fill the hole now.

People are just too ignorant to see that they could possibly be younger than they are said to be rather than older. And has anyone thought how hard it would be to mess up a Kenyan Kids age for more than like a year? They have parents also.

Bump

Did I say $200 is easy to come by in Kenya. In case you haven't noticed we have a globalized economy. If nothing else, Phil Knight could just pull some bills out of his wallet and send it to someone to make this happen.

I'm being a little facetious on how easy this is, but not much.

The roadblock is that the governments in Ethiopia and Kenya deliberately keep their countries closed to a large degree. That is partly the answer to the OP question.

You know in Kenya that it takes 6 months to get that kind of money? No one is going to waste 6 months of their money to put up some films. And no one is going to come in and help Kenya because everyone there is poor and the elite runners who have money probably wouldn't even hear about it. $200 might not be a lot to you, but it is a whoolle wholee lot in Kenya.

Okooo wrote:

You know in Kenya that it takes 6 months to get that kind of money? No one is going to waste 6 months of their money to put up some films. And no one is going to come in and help Kenya because everyone there is poor and the elite runners who have money probably wouldn't even hear about it. $200 might not be a lot to you, but it is a whoolle wholee lot in Kenya.

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We're all a bunch of nationalist dicks. Get over yourself.

Hey guys. Have been real busy today and just got around to looking at the thread. Pretty nice responses. I think I have a better question though.

Do you guys think it would be more impressive for a Kenyan or Ethopian to win an Olympic Gold Medal in a World Record time in any event from the 1500-Marathon or an American to win a Bronze Medal in the Olympic Games in the 1500-Marathon?

Doesn't have to be white...the thing is 90% of our good black distance runners are born in africa. Krum was loved, khadavis robinson has a huge fan base. Lopez and Meb have a solid following, but weren't born here so that is always in the back of peoples minds. Khalid and Lagat were born, raised and raced for their previous countries and came here at or just after their peak. The more were can say we developed someone, the more we like them. If they were here 100% of their lives, we love them. If they arrived in HS, we like them a lot, came as a pro some like them and some are indifferent, never ran for american = who cares. Yankees fans don't root for Youkilis, Boston fans don't root for Jeter, regardless of how well they play or how good of people.

The realist wrote:

My take on it wrote:

We are in America, so we care about America.

And Australia, New Zealand, Britian, Canada, and whoever else has white English-speaking athletes.

7/10