Mark Wetmore's Letter to the Editor

I don't follow CU all that closely, but did Jay recruit Ritz, Slattery, Torres, or Goucher? I think a convincing argument could be made that those were some of the best runners CU has had run for them.

And by your own admission, much of what you say is based off of what a few random people post on a message board or say while drinking beers.

Well I'm drunk and once ran with a few of the WI badgers on a distance run and I think Byrne is the greatest coach in the history of the universe because a few current runners told me so, and Schumacher was just a lucky recruiter and a horrible coach - it's a proven FACT because a few kids said it, oh yeah, and there was this one letsrun thread about it!

And I don't mean to keep being an ass to you, but this is just one of those things that really bugs me.

For whatever reason, (whether it be due to friend's who are affiliated with Jay, or personal reasons) you side with Jay and don't care for Mark. You have a previously established bias, and then are masking second hand opinions as irrefutable, universally accepted truths.

Unless you're on the coaching staff or directly know Jay/Mark/Heather REALLY well, you can't know who is responsible for all of the recruiting/coaching/workout writing, etc.

Name:, wrote:

I don't follow CU all that closely, but did Jay recruit Ritz, Slattery, Torres, or Goucher? I think a convincing argument could be made that those were some of the best runners CU has had run for them.

Goucher and Slattery where there while Johnson was running for CU. Torres came the next year. I don't know when Jay started recruiting, but I don't believe he had anything to do with Ritz either.

Wetmore neither hires nor fires anyone, he's not in a position to do so. The HR department would have done the hiring. Now, you can say that's just semantics and that the HR people would just hire Burroughs over other candidates with Wetmore's strong recommendation. Probably not, though, since she started out as a volunteer coach and worked her way into a paid coaching position. Basically how Wetmore wound up as head coach at CU. I don't think any of this is really Wetmore's desire or doing, however. I put the onus on the woman, there is a strong appearance here that she manipulated her way into the (volunteer and then paid) coaching position, manipulated her way into getting responsibilities taken from others and given to her, and manipulated Johnson into wanting the eff out of there. How much you want to bet she is also manipulating her way into being groomed as Wetmore's successor? She may be madly in love with a guy well old enough to be her father, but she's also certainly lusting after power and pushing her own ambition ahead of the program. It definitely is nepotism, else why did she never coach there or anywhere prior to spreading her legs for the old man? So much conflict of interest in that program right now. Pity the kids who go there and get stuck in that disgusting situation. Wetmore loses a lot of respect with that classless letter, I would not send my kid to run for someone like that.

Name:, wrote:

I don't follow CU all that closely, but did Jay recruit Ritz, Slattery, Torres, or Goucher? I think a convincing argument could be made that those were some of the best runners CU has had run for them.

And by your own admission, much of what you say is based off of what a few random people post on a message board or say while drinking beers.

Well I'm drunk and once ran with a few of the WI badgers on a distance run and I think Byrne is the greatest coach in the history of the universe because a few current runners told me so, and Schumacher was just a lucky recruiter and a horrible coach - it's a proven FACT because a few kids said it, oh yeah, and there was this one letsrun thread about it!

Wetmore didn't recruit any of those guys either. One might argue that Wetmore (and Johnson for that matter) have always been lucky that Chris Lear wrote a book about the CU team. That has always helped their guys team. Johnson did wonders for their girls team.

As for Ritz, his high school teammate Brian Smith sent an email to Wetmore's assistant and said that Ritz wanted to come to CU but no one would call him. Otherwise, Ritz doesn't end up at CU.

Dude, do you simply not get it? Where else do you want these conversations to take place? Do you want an f'in article in a peer-reviewed journal? Listen: Jay Johnson was routinely considered to be one of the best recruiters when he worked at CU. Are you really being that dense?

Name:, wrote:

And I don't mean to keep being an ass to you, but this is just one of those things that really bugs me.

For whatever reason, (whether it be due to friend's who are affiliated with Jay, or personal reasons) you side with Jay and don't care for Mark. You have a previously established bias, and then are masking second hand opinions as irrefutable, universally accepted truths.

Unless you're on the coaching staff or directly know Jay/Mark/Heather REALLY well, you can't know who is responsible for all of the recruiting/coaching/workout writing, etc.

You can't be serious with this line: "You . . . are masking second hand opinions as irrefutable, universally accepted truths."

When did I say I don't care for Mark? I said his letter is bullshit. It is.

I know all three. I know Jay well. Do I side with Jay? Of course. I side with Jay because he is a friend but, even more so, because Wetmore's letter is, on facts alone, erroneous.

Why don't you do some research? Email some of the former CU runners. Email Aislinn Ryan (sp?) about her experience at CU. Seriously. Call a D1 coach (I know a lot) and ask if Jay was a good recruiter. You are the one who knows nothing about the situation.

If Wetmore didn't recurit Ritz, Goucher, Torres, or Slattery then who the hell did, and please englighten me on how the hell you know this. Considering that you cited current athletes as your source of knowledge, I'm guessing you're in your early 20s, which would put you at about 10 when Wetmore was recruiting these athletes. So you must have been working for Colorado's admissions department back then, or were recruiting against CU at Stanford or Oregon at the time? That's pretty amazing to have achieved such a high position before you're even a teenager!

I get that a lot of points and discussion come from places such as letsrun...my point is that you're cherry picking a few partial sources for your information and then masquerading it as fact.

Also, have you ever recruited anyone as a coach? If you had, then I wouldn't have to inform you that establishing an initial contact has little to do with your competence as a recuriter, especially with out-of-region athletes. Your effectiveness as a recuriter has to do with the program you've established, and how you sell that, the academics, resources, and how the program and school can be a benefit to an athlete THROUGHOUT the recruiting process up to when they sign.

Wetmore does not recruit. Period. Are you the last person on the planet to find out about this? Jason Drake was head recruiter until he left and then Jay Johnson was hired and performed that role until Heather Burroughs was given those duties. Burroughs did not recruit Barringer, though she had a hand in recruiting Allie "McBeal" McLaughlin. Barringer may have had more to do with the latter, though.

I am almost done with you. You are just grasping here and going ad hominen.

I am 37 by the way. And this is another good one: ". . . you're cherry picking a few partial sources for your information and then masquerading it as fact." No worries, keep your head in the sand. Why don't you read what other folks close to the Boulder Community are saying about the situation.

Finally, I would like to agree with your last paragraph. However, this actually supports my point: Jay was the best at selling CU.

Also--just a question--if Heather B. wasn't involved in recruiting why did I first meet her at a high school meet which she attended--by her own admission--to "recruit a few athletes."

I don't want this escalating any more so let me reiterate that my argument has NOTHING to do with what I feel about Jay, Mark, or Heather. My points are somewhat off tangent because I'm disagreeing with the way you argue moreso than the specific argument.

You can likely find a lot of programs with rising coaches who are power hungry know it alls, or are great coaches that the HC steals all the accolades from, or have had no qualms whatsoever and in fact had a positive experience all together. Similar spectrum with athletes. Some wrongly blamed the coach for lack of success, others were screwed by their coach, others had great experiences with many All Americans PRs, etc.

Whoever may be to blame, from what I gather it sounds like Jay didn't leave CU on the greatest terms, so what do you expect he'd say about CU, Wetmore, what he accomplished there, etc? Same with athletes? If you talked to Torres or Goucher, they'd probably say Wetmore is the greatest thing since sliced bread, you talk to Ryan, she'll probably give you the complete opposite.

As for your question about Heather as a recruiter...I don't doubt for 1/2 second that she or Jay were on the road recruiting. I'm a college coach myself, and I can tell you that all of our coaching staff recruits, and we sometimes have 2 coaches on the same atheltes, sometimes intermingle amongst event groups, sometimes we assign an athlete to only one coach to recruit. It's dynamic and depends on a number of factors such as regions we're from, HS coaches we know, events we coach, etc.

Name:, wrote:

As for your question about Heather as a recruiter...I don't doubt for 1/2 second that she or Jay were on the road recruiting. I'm a college coach myself, and I can tell you that all of our coaching staff recruits, and we sometimes have 2 coaches on the same atheltes, sometimes intermingle amongst event groups, sometimes we assign an athlete to only one coach to recruit. It's dynamic and depends on a number of factors such as regions we're from, HS coaches we know, events we coach, etc.

I appreciate your attempt to keep this civil.

I agree with what you have said above but it makes the line from Wetmore's letter about Heather having nothing to do with recruiting a bit ridiculous. I know for fact that at some point in early 2008, that Heather introduced herself to folks as the person in charge of "womens recruiting."

Why don't we mention Jay's ultimate childish freak out he had to the AD after CU won the Big 12 track title. Jay was going to get fired anyway after that incident. He left to make sure he had the upper hand and so he can get the sympathy vote.

totes wrote:

Why don't we mention Jay's ultimate childish freak out he had to the AD after CU won the Big 12 track title.

So why don't you provide any detail?

I'm confused by why you're upset with Wetmore as it relates to Heather. In the quote in your first post, he said that initially she was more of an assistant with the distance runners, but when Jay left, her roles expanded, and he says that she may deserve more credit than he does with Barringer.

How is it a "classless letter"? How is it okay for Jay to make "subtle jabs" at people, and no one gets to defend their position or respond? I respect Wetmore for responding to the letter. At least he gets his voice heard. Jay looks like the classless person to me, and very self-promoting. Someone earlier asked a great question: what has he done in coaching to even get the article in the first place? Oh yeah, I know, he is friends with the editor, who just so happens to live in Boulder. Shame on Jay and Running Times for printing that crap about people. Also, I will predict the JJ Running Camps won't be on CU's campus next year. He isn't welcome there anymore. He just burns bridges. It's a damn shame he is a prick. A wolf in sheep's clothing.

I consider myself to be very well informed when it comes to the collegiate running scene. I know many coaches and many former and current athletes.

I have never once heard anything- good or bad- about Jay Johnson as a recruiter. Actually, I've heard very little about him as a coach other than what I've read on these boards.

Can some informed person (non biased please, "Wetmore is Done" clearly has an agenda) give his or her opinion on the man's coaching and all of his kooky drills?

He has learned everything from Wetmore. He learned all those crazy drills from K-state's coach, can't remember his name. He hasn't had too much success coaching. Sara vaughn had a few pr's and Brent vaughn ran a decent half marathon once. Nothing like his 13:18 his senior year under Wetmore. Quite honestly I think he talks a big game but has essentially just copied what he has seen others do. Nothing wrong with that I guess but he comes off as though everything is his idea and his original thoughts.

Remember this?

http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=5765

Wetmore wasn't "responding" to a "letter," idiot. What "subtle jabs" did you see from Johnson, clown?