Clueless? wrote:
who is clueless now wrote:Women have expanded rights, see Title IX. The coach and school fail compliance test under prong three - Full and effective accommodation of the interest and ability of underrepresented sex.
Lot of clueless people on this thread.
Please, enlighten us on how this is not a violation of her right to compete.
Clueless? sounds like another tripping coach who wants to mold a team in his image from 20 years ago . . . regardless of what the community wants. I love when a thick-headed jock tells us what high school sports are for.
I agree with Salmon. Let the kid run.
There will be more to this story.
Figuring wrote:
Clueless? sounds like another tripping coach who wants to mold a team in his image from 20 years ago . . . regardless of what the community wants. I love when a thick-headed jock tells us what high school sports are for.
I agree with Salmon. Let the kid run.
There will be more to this story.
And what lets this young lady destroy the team.
You are either on the team or not. You either practice with the team or you don't. If you don't practice with the team you are not on it.
How hard is this to understand?
If she wants to do her own practices fine she can do that all she wants but she can't be on the team then. If she doesn't trust the coach to give her good coaching then she has ever right to go her own way with no harm done.
But as a coach you cannot have a runner who completely disregards team rules, doesn't run with the team, and according to her own teammates is a disruptive force on the team.
Its not a power trip of the coach to ask athletes to follow certain rules in order to participate. If anything this is what every good coach does in order to control a large group of athletes, different personalities, different talents, and to top it all off this probably isn't even the coaches primary job.
Any athlete in favor of this young ladies behavior has never coached highschool sports nor has any idea what it takes to create a championship team. No one athlete is better than the team as a whole.
What great advertising for this team. "Come join our team. Follow our mind-numbing rules. Run between the lines like we tell you to. Do that, and we guarantee that you'll end up average." Or go outside the system and become a winner.
Those of you who are for the one-size-fits-all coach will be the same crowd complaining about why we don't produce enough world-class runners.
We have 30+ runners on my college team, and we are divided into 4 different workout groups, depending on our ability. And guess what, we have some who are at practice only 3 or 4 days a week. They cross train on the other days.
The girl that won would fit in well on our team. The losers can have a team slumber party at home each weekend.
Figuring wrote:
Clueless? sounds like another tripping coach who wants to mold a team in his image from 20 years ago . . . regardless of what the community wants. I love when a thick-headed jock tells us what high school sports are for.
I agree with Salmon. Let the kid run.
There will be more to this story.
Wow!!! Just wow!!! Sometimes I want to believe there are not people like you in this world, but sadly that is not the case. I am guessing you will raise your child the way this girls parents have, to believe she is entitled to special priveliges just because she is good. That is not the way the world works, or how it should work. Even at the professional level, super star athletes have to still show up for practice. When they don't you have situations like the Allen Iverson, "we talking 'bout practice" press conference. Is that what kind of message this girls parents are trying to send to their daugher. How about the whole caving into Brett Favre and his prima donna antics. So everyone let Brett do what he wanted, skipping pre-season practice and look how well that has worked out. If we join a team, a work place, a social group, etc. we do so with the knowlegdge that we will abide by the rules set up by that group. Sometimes the head of those groups lets one special person get away with things that nobody else is allowed to and then you have situations like Brett Favre or Allen Iverson. A high school coach is not there just to win meets, but to set a good example and teach athletes about discipline and being part of a team. This girl didn't want to do that and didn't get to run. End of story. Do you really see this girl going on to college and running for 90% of the collegiate coaches that will be even more strict with their athletes. This girl didn't even need to show up for practice every day, just some of the practices and she still couldn't do it.
Ok so shes kinda an asshole probably, but you cant tell for sure. Its the media, they screw stuff up all the time.
Anyways, 3 workouts a week isnt too hard to make, and being late for them? wtf how are you late? half are after school and another is on a saturday morning.
But it was probably best for her. Some coaches just suck. She probably made the right decision, just in a bad way.
who is clueless now wrote:
Clueless? wrote:Lot of clueless people on this thread.
Please, enlighten us on how this is not a violation of her right to compete.
Please enlighten us on how this is a violation of her right to compete, when she didn't follow team rules, spelled out to the team at the beginning of the season. She didn't follow the rules and she is not allowed to compete. Not so difficult to understand is it? Oh yes, I guess for you it is.
Man, this is one of the more frustrating threads I have been on in awhile. What it comes down to is the people who don't want to have accountability in their lives are for this girl being able to run on her team and the people that understand what being part of a "team" is all about, realizing there is no way she should be able to compete.
Milbanker wrote:
We have 30+ runners on my college team, and we are divided into 4 different workout groups, depending on our ability. And guess what, we have some who are at practice only 3 or 4 days a week. They cross train on the other days.
The girl that won would fit in well on our team. The losers can have a team slumber party at home each weekend.
What you are talking about is completely different than this situation. She wasn't part of a different workout group, she wasn't getting advice from her coach on cross training, she wasn't showing up for practice 3 or 4 days a week. No, she oftentimes wasn't showing up at all it sounds like and was doing her own thing, with the coach having no knowledge of what was going on. What you describe sounds like a pretty normal collegiate team setting, with various groups doing different things, but not one person going off on her own doing whatever she wants.
Hahah, that's what I'm talking about, Milbanker!
Clueless, you know what type of coaches have to implement a practice policy? Coaches who suck! They are usually complete a-holes or their workouts are all over the place, and even the most novice runners know they make no sense and are doing no good.
This girl is obviously talented and loves to run. You only want accountability from the girl. What about the coach? What was SHE doing wrong to keep away a talented runner? And I have to call out the coach because she threw the kid under the bus in the article, and she didn't have to do that. Cross country and track are sports where athletes can walk away from the worst coaches and still compete.
An athletic program can either be coach-centered or athlete-centered. You're obviously from the former because you only mention privileged athletes. You didn't mention the Bob Knights or Mike Leaches of the world. How will you raise your kids? Beat them into submission and lock them in a closet?
I agree with Milbanker. You'll also be griping when we don't produce world class runners.
I think even the Answer would agree with the coach this one.
So asking the girl to show up for 3 out of 6 practices is to much to ask for from a coach?????
Really??????????????
Do you honestly hear yourself?
What COLLEGE coach would allow an athlete to miss 3 out of 6 practices each and every week?
The answer is 0 and you know it.
Come on now this is not the coaches problem this is the athlete's problem. She wants to run on the team without actually being part of the team.
Those in support of this athlete are not coaches and probably are not parents either because you have not concept of what a team sport really is about.
GermanStallion wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzII think even the Answer would agree with the coach this one.
But unfortunately this is the message that a few people on this thread want to send to everyone; that it is okay to be like Allen Iverson or Brett Favre. I am guessing a few of you have their jerseys. I personally want my hero's to have a little more class and to be a team player. But because of pro athletes like this sending the wrong message, people think it is okay for a high school girl to skip practices and not follow team rules and still be allowed to compete just because she is good. Would this even be an issue if this girl wasn't any good.? Probably not, but since she is the top runner, she should have special privileges according to a few. Maybe we can get her a private locker area just for her. Come on people, are you for real? This is high school we are talking about. Be part of the team or don't, but don't expect to have the same rights as those that follow the rules.
I still say there's more here than meets the (eye) reader. I love that Iverson clip - and he says - "It's not about that - at all." I agree with whoever said "There will be more to this story." Good to hear from someone close to the situation though (teammate).
The broad language of the statute encompasses implied protections against retaliation, which obviously happened here when the school banned from competing. Courts have held that retaliation against a person for complaining was a form of intentional discrimination that fell under the law's private right of action. Title IX protects those who are the victims of gender bias (the girl runner), and also those who seek to vindicate the rights of girls (the mom). Slam dunk.
swofford11, if you and Clueless have to go so far as comparing Julie to Iverson, then you are both clueless.
The coach couldn't produce a winner. Julie did it on her own. I'm glad they have a second-rate them. I'm sure you could coach them, too. And I'm sure you'll need all sorts of rules, pledges, and oaths to get them to come to your 1950s practices and attitude.
Run, Julie, run.
who is clueless now wrote:
The broad language of the statute encompasses implied protections against retaliation, which obviously happened here when the school banned from competing. Courts have held that retaliation against a person for complaining was a form of intentional discrimination that fell under the law's private right of action. Title IX protects those who are the victims of gender bias (the girl runner), and also those who seek to vindicate the rights of girls (the mom). Slam dunk.
Do you even read what you write, or try to understand what this whole situation is about and how it doesn't apply to what you are trying to refer to? I am assuming you are a troll, but if not, please get a clue.
who is clueless now wrote:
The broad language of the statute encompasses implied protections against retaliation, which obviously happened here when the school banned from competing. Courts have held that retaliation against a person for complaining was a form of intentional discrimination that fell under the law's private right of action. Title IX protects those who are the victims of gender bias (the girl runner), and also those who seek to vindicate the rights of girls (the mom). Slam dunk.
Once again this does not have any connections to the situation in question.
the girl broke the stated rules for particpation and thus was not allowed to compete. It has nothing to do with title IX. Almost every school (i'm assuming this one also) requires athletes to sign an agreement before particpation to follow the rules of the school for particpation. This athlete broke the rules and thus was not allowed to participate it has nothing to do with title IX. Here rights were not infringed she was given every chance to participate according to the rules but SHE refused to follow the rules and thus voided her right to participate.
Once again it is the athletes fault for not complying with the agree upon rules.
Move on.
Both coach and runner seem to respect each other's decisions. Seems like another LRC manufactured controversy here.
webby wrote:
http://www.pdpreps.com/2010/11/featured/top-runner-non-factor-this-season/Both coach and runner seem to respect each other's decisions. Seems like another LRC manufactured controversy here.
It actually seems like the girls mom has the bigger issue with this, but Julie does say it was a letdown and not the outcome she wanted.
Also, for those trying to imply that she was better off training on her own because the coach isn't very good, read the paragraph below taken from the article. Seems to me she did pretty well training with the team last year and also at the beginning of this year winning the Stanford Invite in her division.
"Practicing with the team wasn’t an issue a year ago when Nacouzi took the league and North Coast Section titles, the latter in record-setting time. After finishing second at the state meet, Nacouzi made the field for the Foot Locker National Championship race".
Figuring wrote:
swofford11, if you and Clueless have to go so far as comparing Julie to Iverson, then you are both clueless.
The coach couldn't produce a winner. Julie did it on her own. I'm glad they have a second-rate them. I'm sure you could coach them, too. And I'm sure you'll need all sorts of rules, pledges, and oaths to get them to come to your 1950s practices and attitude.
Run, Julie, run.
First, I never compared Julie to Iverson so don't include me on that. Julie is not on the level of Iverson nor is she paid Millions to play a game. If I paid someone millions to play a game and they didn't show up to practice I'd fire them on the spot. Someone else can pay them millions to do whatever they want.
She is attempting to run on A HIGH SCHOOL TEAM......and is complaining about rules established by a team SHE WANTS TO RUN FOR.....if you don't like the rules don't run on the team.
If you don't like the coach DON'T RUN ON THE TEAM. If you think you can train yourself better DON'T RUN ON THE TEAM.
Since you are so critical, how would you run a HIGH SCHOOL TEAM? Should a coach just allow ONE athlete to do whatever they want? How would this create discipline on the team? Once again if you allow one athlete to break the rules you have no credibility to force others to follow the rules. Before long you will not have a team but a collection of individuals that just do whatever they want.
Once again it is obvious you have never coached a high school team or understand the dynamics of a high school sport.
If an athlete wants different workouts than the team, that can be workout via the team environment. An athlete that just doesn’t feel like showing up to team practices is an athlete that doesn’t care about the team and should not be on it.
I’ve coached nationally ranked high school athletes and they understand more than the other athletes that they are held to a higher standard and are leaders on the team. They do not expect special treatment because they are better. If anything it is the exact opposite the expect to be held to a higher standard than the other athletes because they are leaders. This girl is obviously not a leader if she honestly thinks that she is so good that she can’t show up to 3 out of the 6 practices.
Once again how would you run a high school cross team? NO RULES? Some athletes get special treatment over others? Superstars get to do what they want on your team right?
Would a college coach allow an athlete to miss 3 out of 6 practices a week?