Hey Pete Gilmore/BroJos (re: front page quote)

Not so fast.... wrote:

Rojo - not knowing that Bill Rodgers was a smoker was like Donovan McNabb not knowing the game could end in a tie at the end of an overtime period.

Priscilla Welch was a smoker to and didn't start "training" until age 34. As I recall, she was pretty darn good into her early 40s.

too

ShuttleCock wrote:

I think you're missing the point of the quote. I doubt Gilmore is suggesting people completely ignore those faucets of the sport. Obviously they are important pieces to running. However, I think he is getting at the point that many runners have an unhealthy obsession with those pieces and perhaps the main focus should be the actual running part of running.

Project much?

What part of "stop worrying about minimalist shoes, caveman diets, and new-age running form, and start worrying about getting out the door and running a little more than you did last week. High mileage works!" do you not understand?

Who is that quote aimed at? Is this guy suggesting that we don't have people going 2:05 because they are worrying about caveman diets and minimalist shoes? Most of the people that I have heard of talking about caveman diets and minimalist shoes don't really care about running a big marathon PR.

maybe Gilmore should have "worried" about diet, form and minimialist shoes because he was only really a "B" level elite

What I don't understand is why so many of these guys suggest doing the BARE MINIMUM to improve and say things like NUTRITION are nonsense.

Are you kidding me?

I think 99% of runners would agree that the first thing to do to improve at running is to run more. Nobody is arguing that. The simple truth is that high mileage takes time...we are talking months and years.

Many runners have a strong drive for success and are looking at some other things they can do to improve.

These ignorant old timers hanging on to the glory days of yesteryear keep saying "don't worry about form or nutrition, just run more"

Hey dudes, guess what - nobody is "worried" about it, people are just striving for improvement.

Its 2010 people.

Food Matters.

Form Matters.

Strength Training Matters.

Core Strength Matters.

It all matters, but for whatever reason we as fvcktard westerners tend to focus on one thing or a handful of things, but it all matters to some degree. Putting in lots of mileage is however the core upon which other things should be built around.

Obviously the guy running 10 miles a week, but has a really strong core and does form drills 4 days a week will have limited success. No doubt, a guy trying to consistently run 300 miles per week will find limited success as well.

post of the day.

Gilmore talks as if Americans don't want to run 200 miles a week. Yes, those fat cyclists/joggers are hilarious. But I don't think I'm the only one here who thinks about stretching, nutrition, weights and form for one reason only - in the faint hope that doing those god-awful activities will enable me to do more miles.

Ok, I'm really bored this morning as the market is closed and I don't have much interest in the game. I don't think the high-mileage Africans splurge on pizza, donuts, ice cream, mayonnaise, or cookies. Perhaps we should pay more attention to that. The Western diet is ruinous in so many ways, and as the Boomers fully retire, we will approach 1/3 of GDP devoted to healthcare expenditures if we don't get religious about this now. This matters for my generation (40-something) and yours (20-something), because you will be faced with this economic albatross. You'd better be "thinking," and no better day than today as you splurge on shit and completely overlook the meaning of the day, but for a short "Grace" before your gluttony.

Back to running. Sleep is crucial and can overcome a lot of the other stuff. I don't think the Paleo diet is optimal for runners as it's devoid of carbs and "The China Syndrome" suggests that meat is what is mainly behind the chronic illnesses of modern man. But, it's ultimately all about balance. Eat some cookies and ice cream. Who cares. But you sure as hell better balance it out with a copious amount of veggies, fruits, and wholesome grains to mitigate ROS-stress.

There are always outliers. Run, sleep, and maximize nutrition. Do some drills. It's all important in the interest of performance and longevity. And start "thinking."

Another perspective wrote:

Gilmore talks as if Americans don't want to run 200 miles a week. . . . I don't think I'm the only one here who thinks about stretching, nutrition, weights and form for one reason only - in the faint hope that doing those god-awful activities will enable me to do more miles.

Bingo.

And not to be catty, but somebody brought it up in an earlier post: I've seen RoJo's guys compete on a few occasions, and some of them had form that was not so hot. [Full disclosure: some of them looked great, and some from both groups kicked @ss!]

Some of those same awkward guys, I'm told, developed fairly serious injuries. I can easily see that, particularly if (that's a real if--I don't know the details of their training) they have periods of high-mileage, all-slow running. [Further disclosure: that kind of no-variety running made me a permanently-injured ex-runner, so you can see where I'm coming from on this topic.]

I do think that a person will TEND to find his/her best form through mileage--IF the person has some all-around athletic ability (aka whole-body fitness), which is typically developed through a variety of activities, not just running. Lydiard's guys mostly had that, growing up playing a variety of rugged sports in post-WWII New Zealand; a lot of East African kids have that now; a lot of American kids do not.

I've ranted on this before, but: the demise of daily phys ed in American grade schools--and of just going out to play, at recess (remember that?) and after school--means that a lot of American kids, even those gifted with naturally great aerobic engines, do NOT have the kinesthetic sense and balanced, whole-body fitness to develop efficient, injury-free running styles. And so, just as quoted above, they have to take their medicine (form drills, strength work) in order to keep doing the fun stuff: the running itself.

The running is what really makes you better. The other stuff is what lets you keep running.

Agree with both of you. These aren't either/or matters, especially if it's your job. Slightly ironic: Gilmore's point (which is largely true for most recreational runners) has an undertone of, "You're looking for reasons not to do the stuff you don't want to do." But that same attitude underlies the claims that diet, flexibility, etc. don't matter at all.

Most of my friends that obsess over minimalist shoes, or the caveman diet, or running form are more interested in health than speed, and I suspect that's the prime motivation everywhere. So while I like the quote, it conflates populations.

Steve Jones was smoking a pack-a-day at 21 and setting the marathon WR eight years later. Fvcker.

Sagarin wrote:

Not so fast.... wrote:

Rojo - not knowing that Bill Rodgers was a smoker was like Donovan McNabb not knowing the game could end in a tie at the end of an overtime period.

Priscilla Welch was a smoker to and didn't start "training" until age 34. As I recall, she was pretty darn good into her early 40s.

So there's the recipe for success. Smoke before you start getting serious about running.

high mileage works wrote:

Yes, high mileage works, but with over 85% of the American running population injured each year, there's something obviously wrong with the way they are running.

>85% of "the American running population" doesn't run "high mileage" by any stretch of the definition. They mostly run low mileage and they run too much of it too fast, doing workouts (including long runs that are too long for their mileage level) and races that they're in no way prepared to handle on a consistent basis.

Not so fast.... wrote:

Ever see the plethora of threads on this site where people talk about how eating "healthy" and "organic" foods make you faster? It's all nonsense and has never been proven to do a damn thing.

Don't be stupid. Eating healthier means you'll be low on energy and sick less often and thus will be able to maintain better training consistency.

Simulates altitude?

Sagarin wrote:

So there's the recipe for success. Smoke before you start getting serious about running.

XCTC has got it. Smoke and run high mileage at sea level. It will simulate altitude. Smoke while running to get an even greater aerobic benefit, especially during hard track sessions. Then before a race, stop smoking and it will be like coming down from altitude. Genius.