This is why I think any young male that can run 6:00 can train to run 4:30. ANYONE.
If there are elites running 26 miles at 4:45-5:00 pace or in rit'z case, 10 x mile @ 4:32...then the 6 minute miler can't be THAT MUCH less of a talent not to be able to train to 4:30 (even if it means 100 miles a week to get to it).
Can we all run 4:30? wrote:
This is why I think any young male that can run 6:00 can train to run 4:30. ANYONE.
If there are elites running 26 miles at 4:45-5:00 pace or in rit'z case, 10 x mile @ 4:32...then the 6 minute miler can't be THAT MUCH less of a talent not to be able to train to 4:30 (even if it means 100 miles a week to get to it).
I can't believe that I just spent three minutes typing a response to this post. I deleted it, because I know it would fall on deaf ears. Suffice it to say that the quoted post shows a complete lack of understanding of the most basic principles of logic and also seems to indicate that the poster has, at best, a very tenuous grasp on reality when it comes to people's distance running abilities.
edumacator wrote:
I wouldn't compare it to that time trial, because that was ridiculous. To basically run 59 flat half marathon pace for 10 miles, without race day adrenaline... Maybe too much.
10xmile @ 4:32 is pretty damn good, and within the context of high mileage marathon training with long runs, other workouts, etc, it's plenty.
"without race day adrenaline"...? You just went off the deep end. I hope you're not one of those people who think the only reason people run good times is because they have this physically superhuman effort every time they get a touch of adrenaline in their blood.
Here's the link:http://newyorkmarathon.runnersworld.com/2010/11/ritz-this-is-the-new-age-of-marathoning.htmlAnd let me state this more forcefully: the 10x1 was in Albuquerque.
it is what it ain't wrote:
superstar wrote:where can i see this workout anyone got a link?
Although I appreciate your call for sourcing here, no imaginable link would consist of anything besides hearsay or a claim by Salazar or Ritz himself (unless someone filmed the session). No, I'm not calling anyone a liar, just sayin' it ain't nuthin' but a thing and it is what it is 'nuff said.
jc57 wrote:
yet another example of why people are completely wrong when not thinking Geb wind NY easily. so, ritz runs 10x mile in 4:whatever with 2 min rest and that's big new. ok - it is, for him. congrats. Geb ran 6x5K in 14:30 on the way to blowing up and running/winning subpar performance Berlin (and breaking the 30K WR in process). he just ran a 59:30 half. and people think that anyone has a chance against him???? NY is won in 2:07 tops. to him that's a jokingly slow pace.
But he's never run New York before. The pace will not be such a joke when he actually does it somewhere difficult. He may be good at cross country and all, but don't act like he can go and run 2:04 pace on that course and feel totally fine. The course is going to have its effect. He may still win, but it's not like he can jog it.
I went off the deep end? I wasn't making some sort of dissertation on the ins and outs of the human endocrine system; I said "adrenaline" as a catch-all for all the little things that generally lead to people running faster in races than in workouts. Having competition, windbreaks, people cheering, money incentives, etc. Maybe you should calm down a bit, because you sound like a jackass.
And yes, I think most people would say that running 10 miles at faster than half marathon pace is a lot to accomplish in a workout, whether you call it a time trial or not. Doesn't mean I think Ritz is crazy or Salazar is stupid, I just think it's bordering on the edge of leaving your race in practice. My personal opinion, nothing more.
Can we all run 4:30? wrote:
This is why I think any young male that can run 6:00 can train to run 4:30. ANYONE.
If there are elites running 26 miles at 4:45-5:00 pace or in rit'z case, 10 x mile @ 4:32...then the 6 minute miler can't be THAT MUCH less of a talent not to be able to train to 4:30 (even if it means 100 miles a week to get to it).
Maybe so, but that's a really poor argument. You can't gauge what a 15 year old beginner can do by what the elites can do. Your line of reasoning seems to be "If the elites can do it, anyone can" which is backwards from common sense.
Ok, sorry. I see your point. I misunderstood your post.
someone else wrote:
"without race day adrenaline"...? You just went off the deep end. I hope you're not one of those people who think the only reason people run good times is because they have this physically superhuman effort every time they get a touch of adrenaline in their blood.
No kidding. My 93-year-old arthritic grandmother finally heard that canard one too many times and just last week overturned a Volkswagen Rabbit onto some guy who was going on in the parking lot of Home Depot about how "race day magic" can subtract 10 seconds a mile, easy. I was as shocked as anyone else, but that's a grandmother for you.
someone else wrote:
jc57 wrote:yet another example of why people are completely wrong when not thinking Geb wind NY easily. so, ritz runs 10x mile in 4:whatever with 2 min rest and that's big new. ok - it is, for him. congrats. Geb ran 6x5K in 14:30 on the way to blowing up and running/winning subpar performance Berlin (and breaking the 30K WR in process). he just ran a 59:30 half. and people think that anyone has a chance against him???? NY is won in 2:07 tops. to him that's a jokingly slow pace.
But he's never run New York before. The pace will not be such a joke when he actually does it somewhere difficult. He may be good at cross country and all, but don't act like he can go and run 2:04 pace on that course and feel totally fine. The course is going to have its effect. He may still win, but it's not like he can jog it.
I think the other point that people are missing, besides the difficulty of the course, is the lack of pace makers. Now maybe Geb just runs 4:50's from the gun and dares anyone to tag along, but odds are there will surges and changes of pace that you don't typically see in a time trial type affair. If someone starts running 4:30 pace for a mile or two in the middle of the race, what happens?
That said, my money's still on Geb. He looked good in that half marathon, and I don't think it's because he doesn't know how to prepare for the full distance. I don't think it'll be a cake walk but I bet he gets it done.
Does anyone know whether the training described in this article represents a change for Geb? Thanks.
Questions for edumacator:
Do you really thin the world record holder in the marathon "doesnt know how to prepare for the full distance?" If you believe your stmt, please let him and all of us know.
Do you really thing Geb, who has run the ny half on the hilly streets there, doesnt know about the course or ever trained on hills?
Did you watch his recent 1/2M to know he "looked good?" Or just like his time?
Also, btw, the first 10 miles of ny are quite easy (save for the bridge start which everyone jogs up) so 4:50s after the initial mile isnt major for these guys.
People have run much faster than 4:30 on 1st ave. I think Geb can handle it.
Please post your email address for you and Geb to discuss before and maybe for a post-race analysis.
AW
Wow, the a-holes are out in force today. To address your first question, please LEARN TO READ. I wrote that he looked good in his half marathon. I thought he looked strong in the video, and yes, I liked his time. Now there are two possible explanations for this:
1. Geb maxed out on half marathon training, hitting 59:33 as the absolute limit of his abilities, or
2. Geb is just really, really fit, and will be very difficult to beat on Sunday because he can run 59:33 in the midst of marathon training.
I wrote that I believe number 2 to be the case, BECAUSE (as I wrote very clearly above) I BELIEVE GEB DAMN SURE KNOWS HOW TO PREPARE FOR A MARATHON. So your first question proves nothing other than the fact that you can't read, you f***ing idiot.
I am sure Geb knows the course, and yes I am fully aware that he trains on hills at high altitude. Those are just some of the reasons that I think he will win on Sunday. My point about running 4:50's from the gun was that that is one potential strategy Geb could use - and by "from the gun" I meant all the way from the start to the finish, for a time of roughly 2:06:40. Hard to think anyone could possibly hang with that. Or he could let others set the pace, in which case who can best respond to surges and changes of pace becomes a deciding factor. I haven't ever watched a race where Geb has really had to do this, but that doesn't mean he isn't awesome at it and won't completely destroy everyone on Sunday with a massive move at 15 or 20 or 24 miles. I don't pretend to know. I do think he's the favorite and I'll be rooting for him.
Now go try and look like a smart guy somewhere else after you've actually understood what the person wrote, dumbass.
Oh...and the article didn't mention he did this in New Mexico (5,200 feet!). Does it sound more impressive now? :)
edumacator wrote:
Or he could let others set the pace, in which case who can best respond to surges and changes of pace becomes a deciding factor. I haven't ever watched a race where Geb has really had to do this,
And before another shithead points this out, I meant to write "marathon race"
Not sure if you're responding to me, but here is what I wrote originally on this very thread:
"10xmile @ 4:32 is pretty damn good, and within the context of high mileage marathon training with long runs, other workouts, etc, it's plenty."
And yes, doing it at altitude does make it more impressive.
AlSal is basically telling us that he thinks that Ritz is capable of 2:08, maybe 2:07 on this course (since he himself ran 2:08). The thing is that Geb is capable of 2:06, maybe 2:05 on it, and likely will drag a few guys (including Meb) with him. Fifth in this field would be very good for Ritz.
someone else wrote:Maybe so, but that's a really poor argument. You can't gauge what a 15 year old beginner can do by what the elites can do. Your line of reasoning seems to be "If the elites can do it, anyone can" which is backwards from common sense.
Poor argument? Did you read what YOU wrote. HORRIBLE POST. He said NOTHING of the sort. He said if elites can run this type of pace over and over and over again, any 6 minute miler can do it ONCE. HUUUUGEEE difference than saying if an elite can do it, anyone can. You are backwards from common sense!
edumacator wrote:
I think most people would say that running 10 miles at faster than half marathon pace is a lot to accomplish in a workout...I just think it's bordering on the edge of leaving your race in practice.
At 50 years of age I still use this workout during marathon prep (I have actually gone up to 13x1). And the pace is always below my current 1/2 marathon ability. The proper placement of a series of ##x1 workouts in the schedule, along with the rest intervals involved, keeps it off "the edge."
I watched ritz run this workout along with a few others (I live in albuquerque) and he looked very comfortable throughout. The thing with altitude is that the recovery (or lack of it) is much much different here than at sea level.