louisville xc course

Is Terra Huete short since fast times are dropped?

Where (or what or who) is Terra Huete?

Stephen Sambu- 2009 winner of Louisville Classic

ran 23:33.

-2010 Roy Griak champ

ran 23:41.

Louisville was a little faster this year (2010) and Griak was about average. Griak is a fairly difficult course and by no means should it be considered fast. Louisville is very flat and on certain days can be very fast if it is dry, but it is by no means short. I have never heard or seen a measurement that proves its short and there is no reason to believe it is.

Every year people call the Louisville course short and every year people who have measured it claim its accuracy.

It's a flat HARD surface so it's very track like.

Alan

not as short as your penis.

Its actually about 2 Meters too long. The course that is. Not your pe*is

What is annoying about this course is how people will brag about their 8k PR and use it as some sort of measuring stick. Oh, I ran 24:45. Meanwhile, someone will run 27:00 at the Rocky Mountain Shootout and look like garbage comparatively ... when a 27:00 at the Shootout is a better performance then a 24:45 or whatever on the Louisville course.

In the end times DO NOT matter. They never did and never will in cross country. However, it is annoying to hear teams complain that they had a bad race at nationals because they didn't have 7 guys run 24:30 like they did at Louisville.

Shoot, they shouldn't even time XC meets. Let's just list the place finishes and call it a day.

the course is not like a track fool it has uneven footing in some parts it does have 3 hills and the harding runner ran faster last week its just your run of the mill cc course.

I've been to Tom Sawyer Park for several races over the years and while I do not know the distance of the current 8K course, I think there are 3 factors that make this course as fast as it is.

1. The ground there, when dry, is rock hard. Under foot, it feels more like asphalt than grass. On most golf course XC courses, there is a sand base and the grass is very thick that gives a softer feel while running. At Louisville, the grass isn't golf-course thick and the ground is hard. Harder surfaces lead to more efficient power transfer, which leads to fast times.

2. It's not flat, but there are some long, gradual uphills and downhills on the course. I have always found on these types of hills, you gain more time going down them than you lose going up them. The opposite is true on very steep hills. The final 800m of all courses there is a long, gradual downhill that you can fly down.

3. The competition at Greater Louisville and the Trinity/Valkyrie meets are tough and that always leads to running faster than you would if time-trialing in a low-key race.

you are right this is not a fast course.

mklml wrote:

people might peak for this race if the goal is a PR? i dont understand. pardon my stupidity.

If your coach is worried about you hitting a pr at a mid season race then you might really want to rethink where you go to school and who your coach is. Your goal should always be to run the fastest when it counts at the end of the season. Whether that is for high schoolers conference, districts, or state or for college conference, region, and nationals. Never should you be trying to pr for an early October meet. November is when things matter.

Your post makes it sound like Les Bolstad (Griak) and EP Tom Sawyer (GL Classic) are similiar. They are not. Griak is on an undulating golf course that is typically contested during/post rain, hence it is basically a rice patty. Greater Louisville is usually contested in dry and sometimes hot and humid conditions. Tom Sawyer is relatively flat with minor hills. Griak is a much harder course.

I hate to say the differentiating variable is not the course or athlete, but coaching. McLain was a good recruiter with great contacts; at the end he was his own AD. Sambu was a great runner for McLain at RLC, but is even better for/with Li at Arizona.

Ultimately, the reason for the two times being similiar comes down to coaching.

Sambu is in nice company with his 2010 Griak win. I saw Kip Kangogo of BYU and earlier TCU set the record at Roy Griak. I also saw Boaz Cheboiwyo race tough there as well.

Right now, your seeing a talented Sambu in an excellent coaching, training (Lagat), educational, etc. setting.

just believe wrote:

ran the course yesterday and ran to the tangents. dead on 4.98, raced today and followed the crowd, 5.03. Its not short.

Its also not challenging, there is no hill greater than 10ft in elevation change. its run almost to the ground. the ground was rock hard and there are ample amounts of straight running.

Its not out of range for Matt Hughes (louisville) to run 23:48, he is a 13:59 and 8:43 (steeple) track guy. That course runs like a track. Its a legit 8k and if you don't believe that, race it next year.

Hughes is actually an 8:34 steeple guy and the NCAA steeple champ from last spring. It's totally believeable a guy of this caliber can run 23:48 for 8k on a fast course.

Why don't they just run 5 times around a grass field that is EXACTLY 1 mile!!!????

If you want to run REAL Cross Country, go to Davis-Elkins College in West Virginia, after or during a snowfall.

In Europe, they don't really care about the exactness of the course...it's all about THE RACE.

I've wheeled the course- it's 8k. Above posters are right: it's rock hard (when dry), and it hasn't rained much at all in Louisville since like July. Not many sharp turns, gradual not steep hils, long downhill finish. It's just fast.

Look at any of the top ten finishers- Hughes national champ/8:34, Eaton has run 28:40, Kirui is a super stud- lot's of kenyans taking it out hard-these times make sense. Wesley Korir ran 23:20 a couple times there, and now he's the 2x LA Marathon champ.

More interestingly- I think that Cards team looks pretty good. Eaton/Hughes/Bruce are all sub 14:00 guys- My prediction: Top 15 at NCAAs, even a shot at top 10....only weakness is that they are relying on a freshman in the top 5, which could be disastrous over 10k at Nationals.

Nice work Caaaards!

Possibly because an 8k isn't exactly 5 miles! It is actually 4.97097 miles give or take a few inches.

Why? It's xc and times don't matter.

anti-tank wrote:

well apparently this is one of the people who p.r.'d by 2 minutes today!! This course is clearly short or EXTREMELY fast. Calling this course "legit" is like claiming Auburn has a full 8k course! get real bud and go race a full 8k course!

asdfasdfasd wrote:

What is annoying about this course is how people will brag about their 8k PR and use it as some sort of measuring stick.

What is truly annoying is how some people worry about xc PRs, as if it would matter in any context outside of that particular race course.

the 10 miler you speak of was 40 m short done by usatf.

osu cc wrote:

the 10 miler you speak of was 40 m short done by usatf.

This has already been discussed on here. The original 10mi course was legit. Problem was when the organizers wanted to change the start and/or finish and didn't want to make the moves equal. The USATF guy I believe told them the course would be off but the organizers didn't really care or lied or both.

So the PJ 10mi was off not due to USATF but due to local organizers.

Alan