SourMouth wrote:
Burnout is attributed to poor recovery, not hard workouts.
dumb
SourMouth wrote:
Burnout is attributed to poor recovery, not hard workouts.
dumb
wow that was really wrote:
dumb
Actually, he is correct in the strictest sense. Running 100 miles...anyone can do that, if you space it out enough. Joe Jogger takes 5 weeks to do it, an elite does it in 6 days. For a high school runner to attempt it in 6 days, that would probably lead to overtraining.
Likewise with workouts. You can flog your guts out if you rest long enough between hard sessions (on the order of days!).
Moving in from the extremes, often, overtraining IS really more like underrecovery. If you take care of yourself, you'd be surprised at how well you can handle more training or more intensity. And likewise for the opposite.
pshhh 12 miles might be a little much but the Grape Crush does 10xmile (cruise pace), 1 minute rest all the time.
fadsfasdfasd wrote:
Actually, he is correct in the strictest sense. Running 100 miles...anyone can do that, if you space it out enough.
No because he's not saying to space it out, he's saying to do it all NOW, then recover, which is dumb.
It would be like someone training with no brain.
'5:17, 5:18, 5:16, 5:18, 5:16, 5:15, 5:18, 5:17, 5:17, 5:18, 5:15, 5:15'
Now you've done the session and I said it was no good I have to say well done. Those times are good for so many reps, especially on your own and very consistent
scherbatsky wrote:
This is an incredibly good workout, but something I would by leery of using for the whole team (though it sounds like that wasn't the case), though less reps for them would be OK. Sounds like you handled it well.
It's like a threshold workout, but with more of a muscular endurance aspect to it. Daniels doesn't do this. He likes cruise intervals because you can run longer than a tempo and still train your threshold (since the blood lactate level remains at threshold level (4mM/L) for about a minute after running). With the workout you did, you're recovering a bit more between reps, so it takes a little longer to get your blood lactate levels back up to threshold level each rep. BUT, since you did so many, you still spend a lot of time at threshold, plus you get the major benefit of running 12 miles at 5:20 pace (or a touch better). This will help to keep you from getting muscularly tired late in an XC race. Ideally, you have progressed to this workout, starting with maybe 8 reps, then 10.
It trains threshold and specific muscular endurance. See Vigil.
thank you for posting. I can't believe the crap on this thread. This is a GREAT workout. Very tough.
to the OP- It ain't Daniels but it is Vigil and if you worried about that just remember that Daniels can't hold a candle to Vigil in anything but book sales. While JD was getting mid level kids to national meets, Vigil was getting mid level kids to win them. While JD advised a few world class runners Vigil was making world class runners like Pat Porter out of mid level Colorado kids. when vigil finally did take up the advising pro business an Olympic medal was the result. Oh and his books is better. So do yourself a huge favor- drop the 30 bucks and Buy Road to the Top by Joe Vigil
http://www.runningwarehouse.com/descpage-JVRTTT.htmlIn the mean time sit back and except your coach has a way better idea of how to train then you do.
That workout is straight out of the original Galloway Book of Running. Good book actually. It was for week 30 of a marathon training program, so it does seem like a bit much. However, not knowing the leading / trailing training looking at one workout in isolation doesn't mean much.
I think we would all like to know the result of your previos race that you based your 12 x 1 mile workout pace on and your next race to see if the workout was a benefit or a hindrance.
Keep us posted for those of us interested.
It was based on our 8K PRs + 15 seconds a mile. I couldn't force myself to slow down and it felt smooth the entire time so I didn't worry trying to hit 5:20s.
I think the only hinderance will be recovering from it. I have got to take the next couople of days easy, but my body responded well to it and this morning I feel fine besides some stiffness.
I think those three minutes between the reps are really what makes this workout doable and not so insane. It's a lot of time between reps, but it seems with a well trained runner this workout isn't too shabby.
stipe* wrote:
Sounds like a great workout if your target is the half-full marathon. It seems not as specific to 8-10k training.
Indeed. 10k of running at 10k pace, which seems to be about what this coach is proposing, is a very solid workout, however you break it up.
12x1 mile, 6x2, 4x3 would be more than reasonable even at half marathon pace. Doing the same at the pace that's been suggested is pretty nonsensical.
not to knock any coaches here, but when you are coaching runners at very high altitude, it would be shocking if you did not dominate against teams at sea level.
This workout is a cruise interval workout, no? (I just call them broken tempos)
In my experience for 8k-10k training, I've seen most cruise interval workouts done as 6x1mi with 1min rest, 3x2mi with 2min rest and 2x3mi with 3mi rest with the general rule being the same rest as miles run at a time.
3 minutes of rest for 1mi repeats at tempo pace should be easy for a while. It's just the volume that will get to you.
How was the amount of rest decided?
Who coaches from a book??? If your coach does, I say dump the coach and buy the book.
Just do a straight 12 mile tempo run on concrete in racing flats and call it a day. It's a lot simpler and more effective.
typical question wrote:
Coach informed us that on monday we will be doing 12x1 mile at 15 seconds slower per mile than your 8K pr.
For me, this will be about 5:20 pace. Rest is around 3 minutes.
Does this workout make sense? He's had workouts like this in the past that I have questioned but I just looked past it and he just told me to do it. Old coach had us doing Daniels and I know he doesn't advocate anything more than 10km for this type of workout.
Thoughts?
Basically a long cruise interval workout. JD's marathon schedule has workouts like this in it.
3 minute rest is also a long time for this type of workout....but with 12 reps I can see the need for it. I used to do 8-10 x 1 mile w/1min recovery. JD says about a 5:1 effort:rest ratio for cruise interval type workouts.
Not sure why this would be a productive workout for a college xc program though. That's just a lot of volume.
Alan
question? wrote:
This workout is a cruise interval workout, no? (I just call them broken tempos)
It's all semantics, but I think the rest was too long for it to be truly considered a cruise workout or broken tempo.
TK1451 wrote:
question? wrote:This workout is a cruise interval workout, no? (I just call them broken tempos)
It's all semantics, but I think the rest was too long for it to be truly considered a cruise workout or broken tempo.
By definition that would be true...by practicality I'd argue you need more rest. Sort of along the same thought line that Malmo has about 20min tempos. If you're running 12x1mi that fast with only 1min rest you might as well be running a half-marathon race.
Alan
No this work out is awful unless you are a marathon runner. If you are training for an 8k and your coach give you this work out look at other schools and transfer.
wow that was really dumb wrote:
fadsfasdfasd wrote:Actually, he is correct in the strictest sense. Running 100 miles...anyone can do that, if you space it out enough.
No because he's not saying to space it out, he's saying to do it all NOW, then recover, which is dumb.
It would be like someone training with no brain.
ok, so according to you, how would you describe burnout?