Marathon Training Thread - Week Ending 9/19

Goal Race: Milwaukee

Goal Time: 2:29-2:32

M: 6.5

Tu: 10.3 with 2.5mi tempo at 5:32 pace

W: 9 with strides

Th: 9.8 with 8x3min at 5:20 pace 1min recs.

F: 6.8

Sa: 18.5 45min easy then 8mile tempo--avg 5:39 feeling very controlled. Hit the whole run at 6:12 pace with half of it over muddy trails.

Su: 9 with 6x35s strides

Total: 70

Up and down week but another good LR. Sorry to see some injuries hit the board. Hope the coming week treats all well!

Thanks for the reassurance Pablo. I guess I just wonder if the workouts are better because I've missed some of the mileage. I think however, that you are right that it is improvement overall. I'm pretty sure I missed some easy runs last year too. I'm thinking I should look at my comparative overall mileage for my first 8 weeks of training before I worry.

Goal Race: Philadelphia

Goal Time: 2:35

Mo – Off

Tu – AM: 2 miles w/u, 2 x 3 miles (17:30, 17:48), 2 miles in 11:49, 2 miles c/d; PM: 11 miles easy

We – Off

Th – 11 miles easy with 4 x 3-minute pickups

Fr – 8 miles easy

Sa – 4 miles very easy, including strides

Su – 1 mile w/u, Woodrow Wilson Bridge Half Marathon in 1:18:41

Total: 60 miles

I've had a couple of rough weeks and haven't been able to keep the volume up with my ankle pain. I plan to run with an ankle brace until race day to try to maintain some consistency. Given my past few weeks, this week was a very good one. I got in a decent workout on Tuesday - planned 3 x 3 miles, but didn't have another mile in me. My half marathon time from Sunday is not what I wanted it to be at this point, but I'll take it. I hope to keep my goal of 2:35, but if things don't improve much in the next two months, I may have to adjust my goal.

Travel day to europe for me so a bit late with my post. I was upset to read about all the injuries here. Marmite - get better ASAP! We need you out there in Berlin. 6 days to go.

M: 30 mins elliptical plus massage

T:  7.5 with 8x100

W: 8 with 3x1600 in 5:54, 5:52, 5:50  With 2:40 shuffle.

R:  5   

F: rest

S: 5

S: 7 with 8x100

M: 11.5 incl 4k in 16:41  (4:23 4:17 3:58 4:03)

Wednesday's session went well. The intervals felt comfortable and i could have done more of them. My shin pain improved as the week progressed. It seems to have subsided now. Today i wanted to do some MP in order to familiarize myself with the pace. It wasn't really a success. I started off too slow and then i went too fast. Wasnt really a comfortable session. Legs felt a bit heavy.

I think i will take tuesday off to rest. On wednesday i want to do 7 with 2 at MP to really try to zero in on a comfortable MP feeling which is something that has always eluded me. Someone let me know if you think i am overdoing it with a few days to go.

Goal Chicago Marathon - 2:40-2:45 (will be a new PR)

Mo - 10 miles @ 7:03

Tu - 7 miles @ 8:12

We - 9 miles @ 5:53

Th - 8 miles @ 8:21

Fr - 10 miles with 3 X 1 mile - 5:43, 5:40, 5:34

Sa - 9 miles @ 8:14

Su - 20 miles with 10 of them @ 6:00

73 miles.

Plan about 70 this week and 60 next week. Taper after that.

Orville: I knew you'd return! Thanks for your post. Always inspiring to hear your thoughts.

Pablo: By TA I mean tibialis anterior, the muscle parallel and just outside your tibia. It lifts your foot up and is the main "braking" muscle when you heel strike. I met with my eccentric physiotrist yesterday and we are going to wait and see before thinking about a cortisone shot. I am getting incrementally better each day although I am not yet run-worthy. I did get on the elliptical this morning and pounded away for 50min with no ill effects (back on this afternoon). I can now walk without a limp and can jog for a few minutes without pain, whereas on Fri morning I could barely make it to the bathroom. It's not ideal but I am staying positive and focused on my goals for Chicago.

Not sure what I would/should have done differently last week. I usually wear my flats for hard workouts but on Th I ran in my normal trainers that have a higher heal lift so maybe that extra load on my TA from the heel strike deceleration forces put me over the edge? But maybe something was already going on that I just aggravated. I didn't plan on the progression run but I felt so good in the first couple of miles that I thought I'd get out there and hit a few MP miles. The good news was that it felt great and gave me a boost of confidence. I just need to carry that feeling forward through this rough patch.

Pittsburgh Joe: Have you seen a massage therapist that specializes in NMT or maybe even ART? I have had a few bouts with my TA on both legs during this cycle of training. Each time I think it had to do with my shoes being worn out and needing to be swapped. I have a great NMT massage therapist who was able to fix the problem very easily. Rest or Ice won't do the trick. You have to get someone to work out the tightness.

I know what you mean: it's a painful nagging PITA, but it's something that can be fixed fairly easily and shouldn't cause you problems going forward.

Are your flats possibly old? did you run on a different surface than normal? I've been told that your TA acts up when your gait or stride shifts, so it is compensating for your calves. As I mentioned, I have had issue with mine 3 times now over the past 14-15 weeks and each time, the issue comes up when my shoes are nearing their end.

Hope this helps and that you are doing better.

Goal Race: Berlin, 26-SEP-2010

Goal Time: 2:37:18 (6:00 / mile pace)

MON: off

TUE: 4.4 mile warmup, 4 x 1 mile (with 1:00 rest) in 5:39, 5:28, 5:34, 5:25. 3 mile cooldown

WED: 9.3 easy

THU: off

FRI: 10.4 easy

SAT: 6 easy

SUN: 3.5 mile warmup, CVS Downtown 5k in 17:12 (5:30, 5:37, 5:50. Ouch), 0.5 mile cooldown.

Total: 44.2. A little less than expected.

Was hoping for a 5k in around 16:00 but just blew up. Oh well, go big or go home. Now it's just easing into Berlin.

Average_Joe wrote:

SUN: CVS Downtown 5k in 17:12 (5:30, 5:37, 5:50. Ouch)

That first mile was a 5:03, not 5:30

AT: Thanks for the tips. I have never had ART or NMT. My shoes were not new (or too old) but I generally don't do this kind of pace in my trainers so it is a possible trigger. I also think my relatively recent jump in fitness (better weather?) might have put a new load on the TA as well.

I have inflammation/strain of the TA muscle and a small degree of TA tendinitis in addition to inflammation of the surrounding fascial sheath. So I have the classic crepitus when my TA muscle moves in the sheath/compartment (sounds/feels like an old creaky door). Does this sound at all familiar to your injuries?

I am curious and would be floored to find that these therapies would work that quickly. Let me know how this worked for you + recovery time (including how you found your therapist) if you have a minute!

Pittsburgh Joe: Your injury sounds very similar to mine. Mine always starts at the bottom of my foot around my ankle; each time I think its just soreness and maybe a little PF. Before I know it, it's creeping up my leg near my shin before my entire leg almost locks up. The first time I did it back in June, I thought I had injured myself really badly. Mine was 100% due to old shoes, but I can see how it could be triggered with switching to lighter shoes while in the middle of ramping up the mileage quickly. In my case, I e-mailed both my chiropractor and massage therapist and they both said the same thing: that it could be easily fixed with massage.

Personally, I've never had ART therapy as its difficult to find a therapist. However, NMT: Neuromuscular Therapy is a fancy term of a sports massage therapist. All of the therapists at the group I use specialize in NMT, so it's something that you should be able to find very easily.

Now, the odds are that you've irritated yours bad and it won't go away from one treatment. However, I can almost guarantee you that you will see immediate results.

In terms of my bouts with it, the first time I had an issue with it, it took a few visits to the massage therapist to fix it. In fact, my second and third bouts might have just been flare ups from the original injury. However, what I can tell you is that I haven't missed a day of running in over 5 months now, so I've been able to run through it. I can positively tell you that would not be the case if I didn't have a massage therapist who knew how to treat it.

Hope this helps and good luck to you. Find a massage therapist ASAP and call them and talk to them about it before you go see them.

Twice I have gone to a chiro for ART (once Achilles and once calf) and during each session I thought 'this can't be good'. Just plain DEEP massage that hurt. BOTH times, 2 days later problem gone.

I'm a believer.

Goal Race: Toronto Waterfront

Goal Time:2:36-38

1 week to go

Mon - 8k easy

Tues - 12k with 8 x ~100mstriders

Wed - 16k w/ 3 x 1mile in 5:01/5:01/4:59

Thurs - 8k easy

Fri - 10k

Sat - 8k easy

Sun - 20k

75k total

Week was a nice cutback week, with one more to go. Mile repeat session 10 days out went well. Felt too easy, but quit after 3, when the hamstrings started to rebel a bit.

Hay's in the barn anyway. Now it's just trying to avoid sickness, which may be tough, with the wife sick as a dog. I'm sleeping on the couch this week.

Just wanted to give a shout out to marmite, Average_Joe, CTA and Undocumented Busboy! Good Luck this weekend, you guys are first on the chopping block...set the tone for the rest of us!

marmite - How's the foot doing? Are you a go or no-go for Berlin?

Thanks, Pablo. Good luck all. Got the last track workout on the books last night. Now I just have to decide what shoes to wear...

I also need to decide on my shoes. I´ve been using saucony guides (12 ounces) through most of my training and only used tangents (9 oz) just a few times for MP runs. Not enough though. I´m wondering if it is even worth it for a guy at my pace to even be concerned with the shoe weight savings. I am thinking that i should rather have the extra cushioning so i don´t get sidetracked with any leg discomfort midrace. At this point i am dreading leg pain more so than any aerobic discomfort.

I did 4k at MP Sunday night and then i did 3k at MP this morning. I know that is not alot of work but my legs are now complaining and are a bit tired now. Especially my quads. I think i will simply take Thurs and Fri completely off or perhaps do some light elliptical.

Avg_Joe and marmite (hopefully you are ok): are u guys going to do the saturday 6k breakfast run?

PJ: i had the TA pain for around 10 days and then it just went away. I got a massage and i changed my shoes and then it magically disappeared, thank god.

Good luck guys! Stay patient and trust your fitness and you'll all do great. Looking forward to the recaps!

tycobb - great week and personally I'm with Pablo in think it's fine if someone hands you a drink on the course - if they give you a ride on their motorbike then that's a different matter ;-)

mrb - excellent news on the calf. Mind-boggling tempo run on Saturday!

PJ - really sorry to hear that mate, I know how you feel! Hope that the TA is clearing up. Did you manage to find someone to work on it as AT suggested?

Abu Seyame - good to hear the achilles has cleared up.

3TM - sorry to hear about the knee troubles. Hope you can get that sorted asap. Think you can definitely run with your 74min 1/2M buddy in Chicago, sounds like the pair of you are in very similar shape.

Mike in HC - glad to hear your heel is more or less fine now. Hope you get a clear run through to Richmond.

Pablo - thanks for the icing advice, very useful.

VeganDude - nice week and a solid performance at the 1/2M. Hope the ankle settles down.

AJ - good lord man, that's a blisteringly fast first mile. Solid time, especially considering you threw caution to the wind at the start.

AJ & CTA - hope the pair of you have an absolute stormer in Berlin. All the best and give it hell! CTA I won't be at the Breakfast run, but if you (and/or) AJ want to meet on race morning at the staging area then post back on here and we'll arrange something - assuming I'll actually be there......

Thanks for all the good wishes everyone, very much appreciated. Ok, so had to take Sat - Mon off from running, too painful to contemplate, but things have been improving at a good rate with anti-inflamms, ice, heat etc. Did a 2M test jog yesterday that wasn't good, painful enough to alter my gait. Things are significantly better today though, did 4M easy, gait is back to normal, but can't really push off on my toes. So will plan to fly out to Berlin Friday evening. If everything continues to improve at the same rate as it has over the last 4 days then hope to be on the start line on Sunday, if not, I'll be spectating, but have entered Amsterdam as a back-up.

Good luck guys. Hopefully you'll heal up marmite before the race. I have also used ART before and believe it works, I've got a big pain in my right butt right now that I don't know if I should go or not. I've only got 11 days.

CTA - I run my races, marathons in LunarRacers. I like the feeling of being light on my feet for races. I train in LunarFlys (9.0oz) and Kinvara's (7.7oz) though. So I wouldn't jump right into the low-weight shoes just yet.

Found out from the NYRR that I'll be able to get into the local competitive start for NYC Marathon. That will be nice to start up front and have separate warm-up area and toilets.