Billionaires vs. Elite Runners

Actually, that's almost 1.2/100 people

dk46 wrote:

99.9999% of you will never be elite no matter how much you train.

So only 0.0001% of lets run readers are or can be elite athletes? You should have a look at the ALL WEJO list.

"Never tell me the odds!" - Han Solo

the truth: If you want to be a great runner then choose your parents wisely!

I recently found the ultimate runner job. I wish I would have found it a few years back and I wouldn't have to be working my regular job now. It's in the health and wellness industry and has whatever hours you want it to have, because you are working from home. Within a year I plan to fire my boss and just do this. Another great thing about it is that you are working in the trillion dollar industry of wellness and who knows more about that then athletes? Our first month we made $1500 just working very part time and now we are making $2000 per month working very part time around our VERY busy schedule. Check it out at www.runawayhealth.com

"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."

I've noticed something in my life. The harder I work, the luckier I get. Both in my chosen profession, and in my running.

Funny how that works. Or not.

Let's Get Real, you're forgetting the fact that most people on Letsrun are already pretty good runners; it is not a random sample of the population. Therefore your numbers are not especially relevant.

HanSolo wrote:

dk46 wrote:

99.9999% of you will never be elite no matter how much you train.

So only 0.0001% of lets run readers are or can be elite athletes? You should have a look at the ALL WEJO list.

"Never tell me the odds!" - Han Solo

the truth: If you want to be a great runner then choose your parents wisely!

actually, i didn't write that.

I disagree that it takes 5-7 years to get rich, that is way too general and 99.9% of the population can't do that. Firstly, I define rich as being able to walk away from your job and not having to work again. There are 3 ways to achieve this:

1) You can get rich in 5-7 years only if you start your own business and are one of the 0.1% who are successful at it. It doesn't require a college degree and you don't have to suck up to anyone. You will have to work very hard and long but you will get lots of job satisfaction if you are one of the 0.1% who are successful. And if you are one of the 0.0001% who are really good at it you will eventually join one of the list of 500 billionaires in America. That is the beauty of American Capitalism. By the way more than 90% of the millionaires in this country are self made and less than 10% inherited it.

2) If you try to get rich by climbing the corporate ladder, it is going to take more than 20 years and your family life, your leisure time and your running will suffer to varying degrees, and Dilbert would say your integrity will suffer to some extent. You will have to have a college degree and probably an advanced degree, you will have to be aggressive, work hard, work long hours, have a long or high traffic commute, work to obtain a sponsor in senior management (some would call it kissing ass). Even then you will not likely get rich in less than 30 years. You could climb the ladder to the point you are making 120K a year. But, you won't get rich such that you can retire early. The reason is that the tax structure punishes hard work by a deeply "progressive" income tax. The politicians consider you "rich" and they have made the tax structure deeply progressive to punish your hard work and success. You will have to give up to 38% of your income to the Federal government in income tax and another 7% to social security. To make that kind of salary you also likely to be in a high tax state such as California or Washington or the Northeast states and they also punish the hard working with steeply "progressive" state income taxes of up to 11%. You are also likely to have a long stressful commute and pay very high insurance rates and property taxes and a high sales tax and excise taxes. When all is said and done you will be doing fine, you will be better off than 99.9% of the world and you will have a nice car and nice house and nice material possessions. Only in America is such a large percentage of the population making this kind of money. But you won't be rich in that you can't walk away from your job, you are stuck there and you will also be time poor and you can forget serious running.

3) The 3rd way is the path least chosen but I think a lot more people should choose it. It is passive investing. In this method you need a good job, but it doesn't have to be a great job. You don't necessarily need a college degree either. You don't have to climb the cut throat corporate ladder, you can stay at the "staff/working level" or maybe low level management. You can be a teacher or a professor. You don't waste effort climbing higher because of the steeply progressive income taxes that are going to just punish you for working harder anyway. The key is not how much you make, but how much you can save and shelter from taxes and successfully invest. You don?t have to be very smart or work extremely hard. You have to focus on saving by doing the little things that add up incredibly over many years due to the 8th wonder of the world - compound interest such as keeping cars a long time (if invested instead 500K over 20 years), not taking expensive vacations (200K over 20 years), don't eat out too much (200K over 20 years), bring a lunch to work (100K over 20 years) , don't smoke (100K over 20 years) , don?t by the 3 dollar coffee everyday (50K over 20 years), never taking on credit card debt, etc. Then you have to shelter as much as possible by buying your own home to get the tax break because the government subsidizes home ownership, maxing out your 401K to avoid state and Federal income taxes, fully funding a Roth IRA every year to shelter it from income tax, then all the rest invest in small company stock. Invest your 401K in small company value stock funds, not tech funds. Invest your Roth in small company stocks. You need to invest in individual stock following a proven system such Peter Lynch, Value Line, Warren Buffet Value investing, etc. The system has to be one like these that focuses on holding individual stock for a relatively long period of time to again avoid paying short term capital gains taxes. If you use a momentum based system such as IBD you will get slammed with a combined 50% short term federal and state income tax every year (that is if you make money!) Follow this for 10-15 years and you can walk away from your job and wave buy to the guys who "making the big bucks" climbing the corporate ladder.

"To make that kind of salary you also likely to be in a high tax state such as California or Washington "

Washington State does not impose a personal income tax

that's probably the most intelligent post i have ever read.

I usually don't post here or even read these, because of all the bullshit...(for example the long argument about "luck"). But, this is a nice intersection of two of my primary interests: running and playing the game of capitalism. And some of the posts have been great

Kudos to the person who included sources in their post.

John Molivar's post was interesting too. Based on his three choices I find myself closest to choice number 3. For me, it's worked out nicely so far. I've been setting PR's into my 30's (and started running long ago at age 11). I own a nice home and have a portfolio of investments that's growing nicely. Total compensation from my corporate gig is north of 100k. I work 9-5 and get in 12-13 miles at lunch and a total of 90 miles a week. I consider myself lucky, hard working, and opportunistic.

Lessons from running have served me well and given me confidence in the corporate world.

I don't live like a monk. I have some fun, and some bling, but no big baller bling bling.

Will I be a billionaire? No. Will I be an elite runner, ahhh depends on how far down we stretch that definition, but no, I won't be making a US team or major internation or domestic races. So, no.

But, chances are looking good for me to be a lifelong fit guy, fully exploring and enjoying my potential as a runner setting some nice PRs that I'm happy with, living a full and balanced life and finding a way to retire from the corporate game around 50 with enough cash to live nicely without working again. That's the goal anyway.

So, why am I saying this? Just to let younger cats hear one more perspective... maybe this path will work for them. But there are lots of ways to be happy.

I do think you can balance the corporate, family, social, and family interests at a very high level.

John,

That's a pretty impressive paragraph (#3) you put together! That's a one paragraph financial plan that usually cost people $200-$500 to put together.

Nice work.

the essence of rich dad, poor dad: don't work for money; make it work for you. excellent book

skinnbones wrote:

John,

That's a pretty impressive paragraph (#3) you put together! That's a one paragraph financial plan that usually cost people $200-$500 to put together.

Nice work.

Good post, John Molvar. Spot on!

I think 'Rich Dad' is a good book but it does have several flaws.

http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html

Here is a link to a review I found on it. I know nothing of this John Reed who wrote the review, but I agree with many parts of his analysis.

John Molvar's post was very good. Read 'The Millionaire Next Door' for more on that. I presume 'The Millionaire Mind' covers the same ideas but I can't remember if I've read that one or not. I haven't read 'The Automatic Millionaire' yet but it discusses the latte factor...purchasing a latte each day vs investing that money instead.

John Molvar wrote:

By the way more than 90% of the millionaires in this country are self made and less than 10% inherited it.

No clue whether this is true or not, but it would seem more complex than the statistic implies. I'd be willing to bet that damn few left home the day after high school with a handshake and a "good luck" from their parents. Virtually everybody I know that's more well off than me had significant help in seed money, house or business cosigning, paid education, personal loans, introduction to business contacts, etc., etc. Even a graduation gift of a car goes a long way in freeing up money for a new worker. And even by your statistic, a gift of 950,000 bucks that helped somebody "earn" their way over the million mark wouldn't count.

Other than that, good post. A little too conservative for my taste, but good anyway.

Miles & Miles:

Can you explain a little more about this website....is this your comp? I am 25 and live in San Diego...not thrilled about the job market, and would love a 'runner friendly' job that will pay the bills.

thanks,Emily

Re investments: In layman's terms I'd add one thing to what Molvar implied. Learn the freakin money market and the freakin Street inside out, upside down, over and under. The day you are confident that you can invest anywhere, anytime andknow what you are doing is the day you start on the road to accumulating real wealth. Study and learn - it might be risky, it might not, but understand what you are doing and why it might be a soaker or a potential gold mine. Only then take risks. And do take risks. However, being lucky only takes you so far in poker and even less in the market. If you aren't willing to put in the time and effort to learn and know more than anyone else, wall street and the money market isn't for you. And start your own business. Two simple keys - pay whatever it takes to hire the best expertise you can get your hands on (afford)and provide the best service in the business. One without the other means you've stalled at the half-way house. No client or customer gives a sh*t why you, as an upstart business, can't deliver what you promised (preferably deliver more).

sounds pretty shady. what do you do, sell vitamins through spam?

Miles and Miles wrote:

I recently found the ultimate runner job. I wish I would have found it a few years back and I wouldn't have to be working my regular job now. It's in the health and wellness industry and has whatever hours you want it to have, because you are working from home. Within a year I plan to fire my boss and just do this. Another great thing about it is that you are working in the trillion dollar industry of wellness and who knows more about that then athletes? Our first month we made $1500 just working very part time and now we are making $2000 per month working very part time around our VERY busy schedule. Check it out at

http://www.runawayhealth.com