tex highlights here:
tex highlights here:
Webb
Born 01/13/1983 - so 27.
1:43.xx - 25
3:30.xx - 25
3:46.xx - 25
8:11.xx
13:10.xx
27:35.xx
Let's use Lagat for comparison
Born 12/12/1974 - 35
2010 3:32.51 - age 35
2009 3:32.56 - age 34
2008 3:32.75 - age 33
2007 3:33.85 - age 32
2006 3:29.68 - age 31
2005 3:29.30 - age 30
2004 3:27.40 - age 29
2003 3:30.55 - age 28
2002 3:27.91 - age 27
2001 3:26.34 - age 26
2000 3:28.51 - age 25
1999 3:30.56 - age 24
As you can see - Lagat maintained superior fitness well into his 30s. Even came within a second of his all time best at the ripe old age of 29. Averaged sub-3:30 seasonal bests for a 3 year age period that Webb is still to embark upon (matter of fact - Webb has a full year+ before he reaches 29).
One could argue that the reason he didn't reach 3:29-30 from 32 to 34 was because of him transitioning to the 5k (of course you could also argue aging but that would imply a slow degradation in time - which he clearly maintained).
Speaking of the 5k: 12:54 at age 35.
So it's ludicrous to think the human body can't be consistently fast into the mid-30s. Webb, in my mind, has at least 8 years of solid training and world class competitions left in him. That goes for all of you - keep at it.
he actually said he'll PR, not AR
I think AlSal should have entered Alan in a 5k road race (or track race) if his speed was that lacking. Also Webb says he is aerobically fit "just not fast". So a low key 3k, 5k or even 10k would have been a more logical debut. If he had a bad performance, he could just say he was training through it, using it has a tempo run, or justify that they haven't done any speedwork yet.
Instead he throws him in an 800 and now has to come up with a boatload of excuses for the mediocre run. Let alone the possible damage it has done to Webb's confidence. The crazy thing is AlSal KNEW Webb didn't have the speed in him. One of the worst feelings in competitive running is getting left behind when the kicking starts in a race.
Historically alot of mid distance runners would jump into road races during the base phase of training (Coe, Ovett, Walker, etc.). Heck even Solinsky was entered in his 10K because he was only doing "marathon training" at the time. And if he bombed he was ready to say it was a "glorified tempo run."
leonard stotch wrote:
he actually said he'll PR, not AR
I once saw a proof that both are true because of the transitive property.
Salazar said that Webb couldnt break 30 in a 200 three weeks before the race...seriously? If a guy like that is healthy enough to be doing any kind of training should he not be able to jog a sub 30-second 200?
A good coach tries to keep his cocky athletes humble and does vice versa for those in need of confidence....
Alberta Alberta wrote:
Salazar said that Webb couldnt break 30 in a 200 three weeks before the race...seriously? If a guy like that is healthy enough to be doing any kind of training should he not be able to jog a sub 30-second 200?
He did not say couldn't, he said he did for the first time in (like a year).
fudge wrote:
How exactly is a gauntlet dropped?
Gauntlet or gantlet may mean:
* Gauntlet (glove), protective gloves used as a form of armour
* Gauntlet track, a section of two railroad tracks that overlap to allow them to pass a narrow bridge or tunnel in little more than the space of one track
* Running the gauntlet, a corporal punishment
Thanks fudge.....
changing of the tide wrote:
We aren't talking about college teams, we are talking about a coach that only picks up the best of the best so if he believes in Webb then so do I.
In 2003 Salazar was coaching Chad Johnson, Mike Donnolly, and Dan Browne. He got owned by Hansons and a few other groups. Goucher was constantly injured under Salazar and we've seen a mix of brilliance and injury from Ritz while he's been shacked up at Chez Salz. I blame the anti-gravity treadmill.
Let us be honest. This is very common from Salazar. For starters, Cubans are loud and prone to ridiculous hyperbole. I'm not saying Salazar has regressed to being Cuban again, but I think the reference has its place.
Rupp is the poster child for Salazar. Alberto has coached Alan Rupp since his sophomore year in high school. There he began publicizing his belief that Rupp was "it". Now, Rupp is a top American runner...but the kid ain't "it". They hyped his summer...posted workouts...predictions...a lot of talk.
I'm betting Willis and Mottram return to form better than Webb will.
Well there's this:
http://racingnews.runnersworld.com/2010/07/a-brief-chat-with-alberto-salazar-and-alan-webb.html
"Webb ran a six-mile tempo run on a soft grass oval in 30:05. From there, he jogged quickly to the Michael Johnson track, put on his spikes, and finished off the workout with five smooth looking 200s in 27-28, and a sixth in 24.9."
so to put this in context:
"but what they don't understand is that the first time he broke 30 seconds for 200 meters in 15 months was three weeks before the race ... Three weeks later, he's running four 200s in 28 back to back ..."
He "broke 30" means he hit a 24.9 after a six-mile tempo in 30:05 and 5X200 in 27-28, not that he time trialled a 200 after struggling to break 30 for over a year and hit a 29point.
talk is cheap
al sal couldn't come back from being fried
lots of prodogies burn out
just recently Ryan Deek, Mcdoughal[the religous home school kid] and the kid with the head band all toast
that miler from stanford not Jennings
the canadian kid who was a michigan with webb broke 4 in HS and never panned out
Webb's friend Eric? What does he say?
You know, I just don't know what to think about AlSal... cause you're clearly right. He did a horrendous job with Chad Johnson, Mike Donnolly, and Dan Browne. Although Dan did make an Olympic team in 2 events (was that under AlSal?), so maybe not so bad with Dan. The problem with him, I think, was that he wanted to race every discipline, year round... and then got hurt. Not sure it was the coaching so much.
Regardless, his record on the 1st "Nike Oregon Project" was an epic fail in my book.
He seems to have developed as a coach in round 2. You can not take away the fact that Kara Goucher is a WC bronze medalist under his tutelage, and has finished top 3 in NY and Boston. I know she was hyped for the win, but just because she didn't win, doesn't mean she ran poorly. Others just ran better. I don't judge performances based on the hype beforehand, but rather on the performance itself. Kara Goucher's accomplishments are significant under AlSal. To say otherwise shows a clear bias against her/him and a lack of looking at performances objectively.
Rupp is also a success story. I'm unclear how you can say otherwise. Dude is like the 4th fastest American ever at 5k and he's what, 23? He improves every year. Again, based on Absolute performances, and not judging against hype, he has been a HUGE success.
Ritz and Goucher are interesting. They have both had success under AlSal, but how much of that was AlSal and how much of that was luck? I'm not sure. He got Goucher healthy and back to where he was... no better, no worse, and got Ritz sharp, but both show that all the resources in the world can't make glass legs into concrete. If anything, Hudson (who I think is a worthless coach), got Ritz into 12:56 shape (and kept him healthy), not Salazar.
And then you have Begley... he's done a solid job with her... no 2 ways about it.
But Rohat? Nada.
Seems to me he went from being a bad coach to being a good coach. But he is not some messiah. Some athletes do well (Goucher/Rupp), some do not (Rohat/Chock/Mgrath) while others show that their fragility is hard to overcome (Ritz/Goucher) and that they may.... or may not.... do well under any coach.
I think he is better then 99% of coaches, though, and that for the uber talented, he seems to manage them pretty well. The most impressive thing is that he evolves. THAT is a sign of a good coach and I truly believe, he can is quickly becoming a great coach. If he can get Webb, Ritz, Rupp, Begley and Goucher all on an Olympic team, competing in the finals for medals, then he is an UNBELIEVABLE coach. If he can get 4 of the 5, he is an Excellent coach, 3 of the 5 is a Good coach, 2 or less and I would argue any decent coach can take that talent and get them on a Olympic Team.
Jerry is the best coach in the country, though. If you're a 3k-10k guy with some speed (a la Webb or Fernandez) you should be begging Jerry to let him coach you.
yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. Al Sal's been at it for years. Who come out of his house of horrors whole? Most likely injured. I go with Solinsky because he's not with that gang.
[quote]Truth Sayer wrote:
Let's use Lagat for comparison
Born 12/12/1974 - 35
2010 3:32.51 - age 35
2009 3:32.56 - age 34
2008 3:32.75 - age 33
2007 3:33.85 - age 32
2006 3:29.68 - age 31
2005 3:29.30 - age 30
2004 3:27.40 - age 29
2003 3:30.55 - age 28
2002 3:27.91 - age 27
2001 3:26.34 - age 26
2000 3:28.51 - age 25
1999 3:30.56 - age 24
As you can see - Lagat maintained superior fitness well into his 30s. Even came within a second of his all time best at the ripe old age of 29. Averaged sub-3:30 seasonal bests for a 3 year age period that Webb is still to embark upon (matter of fact - Webb has a full year+ before he reaches 29).
quote]
Think we all know why Lagat is running so fast so old as the tests showed a few years back.....
Certainly not what he has for breakfast every day.
Alberto needs to shut up. It is NOT ALL about him and what he can do. Webb is a great talent and had problems and we all hope he can return to awesome form. Again, it is not about Alberto.
I think there is a very good chance Webb could break his 5000 and 10000 PRs. Not so confident about PRing at 800 through the mile.
Comparing to Lagat is a bit disingenuous as Lagat is 4 seconds clear of Webb in the 1500 PR department, so saying Lagat was able to come within 3 or 4 seconds of his PR at 30 would mean Webb would be 333 or 334 in that situation. Just sayin.
Alan Webb will definitely come back and may be run 3.32's but he will not medal at international championship. Solinsky, Lagat and Wheating are the only Americans that have the potential to medal at the championship because they seem not to be scared by African athletes...
Almost Elite wrote:
Regardless, his record on the 1st "Nike Oregon Project" was an epic fail in my book.
He seems to have developed as a coach in round 2.
I don't disagree that Salazar has developed and improved as a coach, but the difference in talent level between early NOP and Salazar's current group is the real story.
What had Johnson, Donnolly or even Browne done before NOP? They were all decent runners at best coming in. Not a championship-level guy among them, as far as I know.
Now Salazar is coaching a group that includes championship-caliber talent up and down the roster. Sure, some of the runners have only won championships WITH Salazar (Begley, Rupp, Kara) but several came to the group with that kind of prior success (Webb, Ritz, Adam).
Sounds like I'm slamming Salazar and saying he's only successful because he gets top talent, but that's not the case. I'm just saying the biggest story behind the increasing success level is better talent, the kind of runners who are more responsive to his methods.
No coach in the history of the world has ever been so great as to succeed with EVERY runner they take on, by the way.