pro runners and narcissism

Narcissism has nothing to do with being anti social or a loner. Its about having a grandiose sense of your value as a person and the need for attention and praise. Many celebrities are narcissistic. Yeah they need others to support them, but in many cases they use these people to feed their own ego. So its not really a healthy relationship. They use people to get to the top. You can be very outgoing and team oriented and still be narcissistic, you simply just give yourself all the credit. That is where you have the word confused. You are thinking of a different word. Maybe neurotic, perfectionist?

This goes for ANY individual sport (tennis comes to mind)- not just running. Many people work their life around their jobs and a lucky few work their jobs in around their life. The solo athlete gets neither opportunity... their job IS their life. This must be the way it is or they will find themselves dropping out of the elite ranks in their sport.

the self-centered"ness" of high level runners is unusual, mostly because they have to motivate themselves to train.

Try arranging a "holiday" w/ a serious runner during the 11 months of the year s/he is training. Their ability to deal w/ family, partners, etc is minimal.

I have seen this on numerous levels. Its the way you have to be. Its not very pleasant or social. Its certainly not the way to live your life.

Unlike work, running produces nothing. So an obsessed worker-bee generates output and income for him and his/her family, adds to GDP etc, but a runner barely pays the rent in the vast majority of cases. Even professional basketball players provide entertainment in a large and very profitable business.

Running produces nothing, and to succeed at it you have to be at the thin edge of the statistics in terms of talent and drive. What a waste, in most cases.

Bill Rodgers fan wrote:

No, you still don't get it. The higher you go, the more selfless you become. If you don't get this, you will never reach the top. Quoting Lauren Fleshman:

No, it's clearly you who doesn't get it. Go learn what "narcissism" means. You can't refute someone's claims when you clearly don't understand the definition of the word that you're dancing around.

Hint: Narcissism does NOT mean "selfish."

Mick Shrimpton wrote:

Running produces nothing, and to succeed at it you have to be at the thin edge of the statistics in terms of talent and drive. What a waste, in most cases.

Other than the vast physical, mental, and emotional benefits. Ya nothing.

If you're trolling the dredges then anything above you seems a target for NPD criticisms. Try elevating your self esteem and you won't need to attack those more successful. This all is really too familiar boys.

Splinter from Ninja Turtles wrote:

No, it's clearly you who doesn't get it. Go learn what "narcissism" means. You can't refute someone's claims when you clearly don't understand the definition of the word that you're dancing around.

Hint: Narcissism does NOT mean "selfish."

1. inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity.

2. Psychoanalysis . erotic gratification derived from admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, being a normal condition at the infantile level of personality development.

—Synonyms

1. self-centeredness, smugness, egocentrism.

Without revealing who I am (maybe I'm elite, hmmm?), the Olympians and elites I've been around are very, very humble people. They are just as ordinary as you and I, grateful for their ability, and personable. It's those who are just below them, the ones striving to be the best, that could be characterized as "narcistic". That's what I'm getting at.

Wheating started off kind of full of himself but quickly learned he was selling himself as a product and the Univ of Oregon so then quickly changed his attitude to a more humble one for the crowd. It Worked.

It can be healthy and good depending on your perspective and goals in life. I'm sure the same arguments could be used about monks or other similarly dedicated figures, although they tend to be less narcissistic for sure. I started running again when I looked back on my life and what made me happy. The stuff that made me happy wasn't what was supposed to make me happy, like traditional relationships, the idea of a family, career, or even the idea of contributing to society and changing the world. It was the regularity of running lifestyle with all it's ups and downs and in and outs.I'm not even a B and C runner right now, more like an D- runner. I finish top-10 at local races, maybe top-5 if all the local fast guys sleep in. It consumes my life because nothing gets in the way of it, it's the one non-negotiable thing in my life. Sometimes I come across as narcissistic too. Call my life an empty shell, but I wouldn't go back.

THEANTIRUNNER wrote:

I have done extensive research on this topic and have revealed that research in pother threads. I don't have time to rehash all of it. I will say that running is not a healthy endeavor. It can and it will consume your very being. I would love to elaborate on this topic at a more convenient time.

Wow, Mick, do I smell a bit of animosity? Sorry you never made it as a pro. I did. During the three years I was pro I ran for 2-3 hours each day and napped for 1. That left me with 4 free hours more than the average worker. With that extra time I volunteered with the Big Brother program and coached youth track. What have you done to give back?

Running helped me build the mental strength, determination, work ethic and will power that allowed me to succeed in other parts of my life. But most of all it taught me balance. Now I jog six miles in the morning before my kids wake up and work a 35 hour a week job (for a non-profit) so I can spend lots of time with my family.

I did have some "social" issues with friends who couldn't understand why I didn't want to get wasted every Thursday night. That was tough at first, but I soon realized the problem was not me, it was that my friends didn't know how to have fun without drinking. Now I live in Utah and have friends that enjoy hiking, rafting, biking, skiing and other activities that we unusually complete before my old friends get out of bed on the weekend.

I love my family, running and the outdoors, not myself. You can go crawl back in your hole now.

The majority of people go through that phase you described as not being able to have fun w out drinking. People just mature over time, some of them, and learn that there is more to life. Be it runners, football players, gymnastics, workaholics, drug addicts, etc. This topic is not unique to runners. We all figure out our priorities; hopefully sooner than later.

That being said nothing beats an evening 10 mile run with the wind against your back, as you cruise over terrain passing cars, people, etc. Enjoy it while you can, none of us are getting off this planet alive!

as we get older, we start to see more and more possibilites for challenge and success. Running is a single avenue for that. When you are 18, its hard to imagine the professional avenues available at 40, 50 etc.

I knew at about 16 I did not have the talent or desire to be a "pro". I looked for other arenas in which I could "succeed".

What I find interesting and a little unfortunate is those athletes who pursue success in running, despite lack of talent, and eschew professional opportunities, in favor of running. There are many ways to butter your bread, and despite what people tell you, work IS gratifying - its not just a paycheck.

I am ambitious. I could not fulfil my ambition through running. I looked elsewhere. The vast majority of runners who are raised in the modern world should do the same (my opinion). Its fun, but a single element in a vast array of things to do in this life.

I don't think narcissism in the right word. That implies excessive self-esteem, when plenty of runners are driven by insecurity, lack of self-esteem, and a desire to control a part of their lives.

I do think "selfish" in a particular and non-pejorative sense is accurate for any high level athlete in the sense that such athletes have to spend much of their time perfecting their bodies and skills and have to be focussed on themselves to succeed at a high level. To succeed at their job they have to protect all the time they spend on themselves running, exercising, napping, doing drills, worrying about diet, etc., and they have to spend a lot of time thinking about themselves. You could say the same thing about people like professional musicians who spend huge amounts of time perfecting their own musical abilities.

Those kinds of lives are "selfish" compared, for example, to someone whose job or life is based on thinking about other peoples' needs.

But being selfish as an athlete or a musician is is not necessarily the same thing as being selfish in all parts of someone's lives, as in being a jerk and always expecting something better than everyone else. Some athletes are like that and some aren't just like the general population.

Geb certainly comes to mind!

Ryan Hall uses God as an excuse to cover his narcissism. I mean come on, who come across the line pounding his chest, then realizes I have to thank god and point to the sky. It's all bullshit.

To be extremely successful in any pro-sport, if you are not narcissistic, obsessive, or soul willing to sacrifice family and a "normal" existence then you will not be successful...period! Sure you be able to run a "good" time in the 5k (good 5k guys are a dime a dozen), but you will never be one of the bests in the world. Sure you make break your high 100m meter record, but who gives a shit, unless your the world record holder! period! It's the narcissism and obsession that drives this athletes to be successful...some call it dedication and hard work...but beneath all that is the narcissism and obsession... Of course with this traits also sometimes comes to willingness to use PEDs to perform and achieve goals...but that's another topic of discussion.

I agree with both Primordial and formerpro. I toiled for years chasing the dream so to speak..had many highs and some really low lows..but the journey was worth it. I ran 3:43 at 29 after running 3:50 in college and 1:50..I won many local/regional road races with typical purses etc..I finished in the top 5 at US Indoors. Running is a bit of an obsession but from my experience it is really full of type A people with insecurity and many times selfesteem issues..I personally have known athletes who made the Oly team but even as they were running extremely fast times in comparison to me they continually doubted there ability..I think runners in general need constant positive feedback and just one workout can cause many to doubt there conditioning..have seen it..and put that trip on myself when I was so wrapped up in it..Running to me is very good training for life because it can be so devastating and rewarding at the sametime..You pour your guts into it, sacrifice income, career, many cases family/relationships and sometimes you would completely bonk..but there were a few instances for me where the outside world stopped..there was complete silence..my effort was completely painless..and then utter shock at how fast I had just run..completely in the zone..but that is the irony of it..I was always running to and in between those moments of elation..but now running is the place I go to decompress..an escape..something I want to pass on to my daughter..it is a source of strenght solice and just a health and appreciated part of my life. Running has been good to me.

If your measure of the value of a person is based on what they contribute to the GDP, you will indeed think that pro runners waste their time.That being said, if you based the value of a person on their contribution to the GDP, you have other problems. The list of people who contributed much to society without creating "goods" is huge.Furthermore, I don't see any reason that someone has to contribute goods to be a good person or a good member of society. If a person lives as a quasi-hermit, making little, spending little, and receiving little, one could even argue that they are a better person, being more respectful of the resources of the world, etc.

Mick Shrimpton wrote:

Unlike work, running produces nothing. So an obsessed worker-bee generates output and income for him and his/her family, adds to GDP etc, but a runner barely pays the rent in the vast majority of cases. Even professional basketball players provide entertainment in a large and very profitable business.

Running produces nothing, and to succeed at it you have to be at the thin edge of the statistics in terms of talent and drive. What a waste, in most cases.