African Championships (10000m)

reanato has categorically stated that he is not Mo farah's coach therefore he was not trying to upstage Allan Storey.Reanto merely advices Mo farah and am quite sure Allan Storey is okey with the arrangement.It is not uncommon for athletes to use more than one coach;paula radcliffe has 3 coaches.Some of the top sprinters consult with michael Johnson even thouch he isn't there main coach.At the end of the day the athlete is the boss and he can have as many coaches and managers as he wishes.During his peak Wanjiru had both a japanese coach and a kenyan coach.

No one is undermining Allan wrote:

During his peak Wanjiru had both a japanese coach and a kenyan coach.

Before go ro Japan Wanjiru trains togheter with Renato training group and was advised by Renato. Renato may confirm what i say. May be its interesting if Renato will tell us what did happens.

No one is undermining Allan wrote:

During his peak Wanjiru had both a japanese coach and a kenyan coach.

Before go to Japan Wanjiru trains togheter with Renato training group and was advised by Renato. Renato may confirm what i say. May be its interesting if Renato will tell us what did happen.

Renato,

What would you suggest for someone in his early 30s, looking to run a marathon in the fall but also wants to run fast from 5k through 1/2 marathon in the winter? Many years ago I used to be fast (low 51 for 400 meters) but today, I probably can not break 65 or 66. I have had a lot of time off, but have been training consistently for the marathon for the last 18 months. I think I can run 2:36 or 2:37 this fall, and probably 16:15 or so for 5K. I would like to get back to 15:30 shape (have done that in the past on much lower mileage, but much more speed) and a 1:12 half and hopefully close to 2:30 in NYC next year. These last 2 goals would be new territory. But I think if I had the speed to run 15:30 combined with the strength of marathon training, I can do it. Off low mileage (50 miles per week) I ran my first marathon last fall in 2:43. I also ran a 16:20 leading up to it. Since then, I have been running 70-100 miles a week (with several weeks off due to small injury this spring) but little speed.

Right now my speed and V02max is lacking. I get very winded at anything faster then half marathon pace. I am afraid to mix in too much speed during these last 8-10 weeks before my marathon, but don't want to neglect my speed too much longer. Any advice on how to work on speed and V02 max such that I gain a little back while training for the marathon these next 2-3 months? I am training 80-100 miles a week and am starting my marathon workouts now. I do things like 2ks, 3ks and 5ks at 10k-1/2 MP and tempos in my long runs at MP.

Thank you for any advice.

During World Championships in Osaka, Samuel Wanjiru called me, saying he wanted to change his life. After several years in Japan, he was tired to have a contract speaking about more than 300 days per year in Japan as must, and he wanted to go back to Kenya. He asked me what he had to do in his training in altitude, because his coach (very good, was Morishita) didn't have experience about altitude training.

I adviced Samuel, sending programs for altitude training, thru Peter Mathu, kenyan coach that was the responsible of Kenya during WCh in Berlin, and was my student during the Elite Course in Nairobi in July 2007 (also, he worked with me in the camp I ran using my personal money, without any manager, for developing Kenyan athletes, in 2005 and 2006).

Samuel used my advices till London Marathon 2008 (somebody told me also later, but in this case I never sent him any new program), training mainly together with Isaac Macharia, a very educated guy having a degree from University, training and living in Japan from long time, that is the most expert and intelligent Kenyan runner in Japan.

My goal was to give some info for Samuel only for starting his activity in altitude, but I needed to continue also in the first months of 2008, because I was the only European coach remaining in Kenya during the period of the clash, and for many athletes it was a real emergency.

What happened after OG, I really don't know. Of course, I have some info from friends living in the area of Nyahururu (where Samuel trains), but these are rumors, and I don't want to speak about rumors, but only about facts.

British eye witness wrote:

Mo Farah is actually coached/advised by Alan Storey (well respected coach in UK)....there is no secret formula with his training, he does very fast workouts on the track (5-6k volume), tempo runs (8mile) and very very easy running in between. Some strength and conditioning.

To train to be euro champ you can’t do as Mo Farah does. Very very easy running in between doesn’t make champions. You shall train daily at you best aerobic pace and not as Mo does. Don’t you know Lydiard the world best coach.

Off the Grid wrote:

How fast is "speed"?

MP?

HMP?

10k pace?

5/3k pace?

Faster?

Faster. Sprinting.

Renato,

Thank you very much for your informative posts. What would you define as maintaining speed during the normal training program? Does that mean strides, hill sprints, etc. or actual workouts of the neruomuscular variety? Could you give an example of how a marathoner and 10K runner maintain speed during their respective, regular training programs?

Thank You

Renato could ou give us a report of the women 5000M final earlier today an Nairobi.I know it was featuring Defar,Cheruiyot,Mekamu and Ejigu.Have tried to look for information onine but could not find.

I'm thinking you might have a little confirmation bias. And truthfully I don't think you consider or understand the counter arguments.

No one should be surprised if a very good 5000m runner runs a very good 10000m. And being a top Kenyan distance athlete usually means light frame, and < 50 400m capability. You're talking about runners who are built to race most any distance. By no means are they or should they be locked into one training approach.

As always, Mr. Canova, thank you for detailing your unique insight & perspective. It is a rare Letsrun thread during which a coach is not verbally rent asunder by critics - a rare treat!

LTS wrote:

British eye witness wrote:

Mo Farah is actually coached/advised by Alan Storey (well respected coach in UK)....there is no secret formula with his training, he does very fast workouts on the track (5-6k volume), tempo runs (8mile) and very very easy running in between. Some strength and conditioning.

To train to be euro champ you can’t do as Mo Farah does. Very very easy running in between doesn’t make champions. You shall train daily at you best aerobic pace and not as Mo does. Don’t you know Lydiard the world best coach.

I know that you are trolling, but I still have to point out that you don´t know shit about Lydiard. "Best aerobic pace" is for the base phase. When you move on to the other phases, you run easy between your workout days.

I suppose you are speaking about something you don't know.

A lot of Kenyans don't use any training of AEROBIC POWER. All the athletes use running (usually on Monday) for long time (over 1 hr 30'), but at very slow pace. IF IT'S TRUE THAT NOBODY RUNS FAST LIKE KENYANS OR ETHIOPIANS IN TRAINING, IT'S ALSO TRUE THAT NOBODY RUNS SLOW LIKE THEM.

When you read something about training 3 times per day, this is a total bullshit. The first training is at 6:00am, most part of times without light, and athletes run in the darkness helped by the lights of the car of the coach, the few occasions that they have a coach, otherwise their pace is between 7' and 6' per km for the first 3 km. So, when they say "I run 1 hr fast", it means 3 km in 20' jogging, 15' increasing speed, 10' moderate and last 15' at 3' / km, using progressive running. The second training is again in the morning (about 10:00 o'clock), and is the best of the day (track or fartlek). The 3rd session (almost some time) is in the afternoon, consisting in very easy jogging (45' / 50' for 10 km).

This means that THESE ATHLETES REMAIN FAR FROM THEIR AEROBIC POSSIBILITY.

Of course, normally they have a natural aerobic power higher than white runners born and living at sea level, BUT THE LEVEL THEY CAN REACH IS VERY MUCH HIGHER IF THEY WORK IN THAT DIRECTION, also if runners of 1500m.

If you are Kenyan, the problem is not to train for beating some European (possible also with a soft aerobic training), but to beat the other Kenyans and Ethiopians. If you can become the number one, you cannot be satisfied to be the number 20 (but better than the European).

So, we are speaking about THE BEST SYSTEM FOR REACHING THE MAX POSSIBLE LEVEL ACCORDING WITH THE TALENT THEY HAVE.

Under this point of view, there are no differences between European and African, or between strong and week athletes. If you want to reach your personal best, the key is to reach the higher possible level of Aerobic Power, and this is not possible without adequate volume that is the base for the "volume of intensity".

Why two Marathon runners (one, Geoffrey Mutai, full time because already able running under 2:05:00, the other, Wilson Kiprop, having a preparation for Prague Marathon started in January, using that training for increasing the volume of "specific training" for 10000m) were able to beat in Kenya ALL THE ATHLETES FASTER THAN THEM PREPARING NATIONAL TRIALS IN TRADITIONAL WAY ?

When Paula Radcliffe was able to run her PB in 3000 (8:22), 5000 (14:31) and 10000 (30:01) after many years of specific training for track ? Some month after running her first marathon in 2:18 (2002).

When Maura Viceconte was able to beat the Italian Record of 10000m (31:05.54) ? Two months after beating the National Record of Marathon (2:23:47 in 2000).

You have to answer to this question : do you think more possible running a marathon preparing 5000m with a lot of training of speed but without long and fast run, or running a 5000m preparing Marathon with long and fast run, including some specific workout of speed ?

And also : which type of speed you need for running, for example, a 5000m in 13' (2'36" per km = 62"4 every 400m) ?

If you are able running in training 10 times 400m in 56" with 2'/3' of recovery in between, the next goal in order running a fast 5000m is running 10 times in 55", or it's better running 10 times in 56" reducing recovery to 1' (in this way, increasing the ability in running with high saturation of lactate in your muscles), or also 15 times in 56" with the same recovery of 2' / 3' ?

In other words, is it better to continue to push for increasing speed, or, when you are comfortable with a speed faster of 5% than the specific speed of the race (in the above case, 62"4 less 3"1 = 59"3), to try to EXTEND THE SPECIFIC ENDURANCE AT THAT SPEED, increasing the volume of training at a speed between 90% and 105% of the specific speed (in this case, per km, between 2'51" and 2'28", obviously using distances in training till 8-10 km at 90%, and distances of 400-800m at 105% ?

The final goal, for every distance, is not TO INCREASE THE SPEED, but TO EXTEND THE ABILITY TO LAST AT THE SPEED OF THE COMPETITION.

In this way, you increase the special volume, and this provokes a decrease of the level of lactate at the same speed. Consequentely, WHEN YOU WANT TO RUN A SHORT DISTANCE AT THE SAME PERSONAL INTERNAL LOAD, YOU CAN RUN FASTER (so, the first effect of an increase in specific volume is to enhance the speed).

You make confusion between MECHANICAL ENGINE (we have to work for bettering muscular strength, reactivity and elasticity, but this has nothing to do with BIOENERGETICAL FACTORS, that are the real limit in every competition of endurance) and METABOLIC ENGINE. For all the activity of endurance, the cake are workouts having a Metabolic goal, the sherry on the cake workouts having a Mechanical goal.

Renato,

Are you saying that the description you gave of training three times per day is not proper base training?

Do you think that the base phase should include more workouts of "aerobic power" done at a faster pace than the Kenyan "jogging"?

Renato Canova wrote:

c)The current problem of Shaheen is that his focus is not completely on athletics, like before. He decided that never wants to compete in the future for Qatar again. This means to decide that, in your future plan, there are no WCh 2011 in Daegu and OG 2012 in London. So, for the n. 1 in the World, an activity without the most important targets cannot produce fully motivation. If something can change in the future about his decision, I bet Shaheen can be able to come back n. 1, since his fitness at the moment is completely ok.

Wow, this is such an interesting situation. We would all be very interested to hear more about what is happening between Shaheen and Qatar if you would be willing to tell us (I apologize if this is already well known information, I could not find it anywhere).

Thank you again for your insightful wisdom in your last few posts!

Hi Renato:

Any details of how Rudisha trains? Thank you.

Renato,

You mention that Kiprop is a marathoner and had just completed a long run 7 days before the 10,000. What type of long run was it? When you say marathoner...are they in the middle of marathon training? If so, what type of training (if any) did they do related to the 10,000? Did they still complete shorter/quicker workouts?

Thanks.

Hi Canova,

I appreciate your heart and availability. You offer to us athletes much support and assistance directly or indirectly.I agree with you that the tips you gave Wanjiru helped us alot in 2008.We sat with wanjiru in Fukuoka when i was his pace maker that year,and going by what you suggested that we do i ran my PR in Dubai 2.07 behind Haille and Sammy after three months ran his PR then in London.The same helped us train for Chicago last year,Sammy ran great but i died after 25K.

On this coach what made me finish my energy that quick n Sammy kept on moving.We had the same training menu in Ngong.We truely appreciate your assistance and hopeful that you get a big training facility where we can be coming and see you .

Hi Renato,

What type of training do you advise for athletes to improve aerobic power who have not developed it enough to reach ones personal best in the distance events?

Do you advise mainly easy running or do you think doing a mix of fast, medium and slow aerobic training is the best?

Thank you Renato