What are some Key workouts to indicate 2:36-2:38 marathon fitness?

All you people telling him to do 20 miles at race pace are either crazy or are not doing enough mileage in your marathon training. That would have to be the most insanely tough workout I have ever done. Why not just tack on the extra 6.2 and just be done with it? I mean given that you're not tapering for the workout, that would basically be an all-out race effort, no? Unless you're in better shape than 2:36-2:38 and you just want reassurance? I think some of you might have spent your best race efforts in practice.

And you were told what paces. Nothing more nothing less. The principle of specificity applies here.

I've got to agree with edumactor here... in my experience, a 20-miler at race pace is going to take 5-10 days to properly recover from, which can throw a big wrench into your regular training. Add in the logistical problems-- you're running marathon effort, but without regular water/hydration stations, and likely on your own. The physical and mental toll is going to be huge. Trust your training, and save that type of effort for the marathon.

If you're worried about being able to carry 6:00 miles all the way through, start at 6:05-6:10. If you really are fit and ready to run 2:36/7, you can easily get that time back in the second half.

thepinkmonkey wrote:

2) "Any other "indicator" workouts to give me a sense of whether I should trek out at 6:00 pace come 10/10/10?"

FWIW, I really didn't care what you were attempting to run the New Haven race in. FYI, I have run NH a few times and it is very difficult to predict a time there as it can be very hot and sometimes humid.

I was addressing your second question noted above. Run 20 at 6mp (and I'm not the only one to suggest you do 18-20 at marathon pace)and, as I said, you will be mentally and physically ready to achieve your goal.

The other factor in doing this is it's your first marathon so pacing is essential.

Sure, the pacing within long runs are great but it's not 20 at 6.

Just my .02 cents.

All the best,

TPM

I stand corrected, it is NOT your first marathon, according to your first post. However, it still doesn't change my opinion.

To address the other poster, maybe we were all crazy but that is how we trained. Also, it's not all out because we (and the OP) could run much faster at shorter race distances.

Why not let the 20K race dictate what you're capable of? The New Haven course is excellent and should make Chicago feel like a piece of cake.

Otherwise, if you can do 1-2 mile repeats at equivalent 10K pace and 3 mile repeats at equivalent half marathon pace, those are good indicators. The long, hard MP runs can be overkill. Focus more on effort for these runs rather than pace. I'll wear a HR monitor and keep the HR at 85-90% of max HR, and then for the last month take it off and run by effort (progression runs within the long run). Really, it's better to be well rested in the 3 weeks leading up to the marathon. The rest in itself becomes more important than the workouts.

1:10 is fast enough to run sub 2:30. Doesn't mean you are going to though. Shorter times are indications of ability not some guarantee. Most people doing 70+mpw can run the marathon in 15-30sec slower per mile than MP. There are some that just blow up though especially if they go out too fast or haven't gotten enough mileage in

Juddlebugs wrote:

Juddlebugs wrote:

i dont know much about marathon training, but I've heard there are people who run 1:15-1:16ish who break 2:40...from the sound of it 1:11 is plenty good enough to be there, no?

or unless you arent that consistent with the miles...i knew some 1:10-1:11 half guys who barely cracked 2:40 at Boston Marathon though..

Not all of it. In the summers I ran over really hilly courses in hot weather and just did what I could manage and generally the secondary runs were often fairly slow. But my normal daily run, usually 10-15 miles, was at about the same pace as whatever I was able to do for a marathon. If you're going to run at a pace for 26 miles it's not going to have you breathing hard so running 10-15 miles at that pace isn't that demanding. I suspect that's different if you're running really fast marathons, say 5:30 pace or better. But I wasn never that fast.

When I was running around 3:00-3:30 I was training at 7:00-8:00 pace. As my training pace dropped so did my racing pace. I can't really help what you believe but it wasn't that hard.

My friend ran 2:36. Ran an hour a day at 6:00 pace and a longer run on the weekend. Probably wasn't an ideal way to train, but got him into that kind of shape pretty quickly after a tour in Iraq and coming home out of shape and over weight.

113 wrote:

I've got to agree with edumactor here... in my experience, a 20-miler at race pace is going to take 5-10 days to properly recover from, which can throw a big wrench into your regular training. Add in the logistical problems-- you're running marathon effort, but without regular water/hydration stations, and likely on your own. The physical and mental toll is going to be huge. Trust your training, and save that type of effort for the marathon.

If you're worried about being able to carry 6:00 miles all the way through, start at 6:05-6:10. If you really are fit and ready to run 2:36/7, you can easily get that time back in the second half.

I actually ran my 20 miles in 6 min/miling during a 20 mile race so got all the water stations etc and ran with some of my training partners. I'd done a double the day before and I was back on regular training a couple of days later. It was an easier effort than my marathon which was on a much hotter day and a couple of seconds a mile quicker.

I think doing 20km in 5:40s is the minimum kind of shape you need to be in for 2:36 - 2:38.

Good luck!

Nothing is free wrote:

Brit, what was your weekly average mileage around this time?

70 - 80 miles a week. (Went above 90 a couple times, but also below 50 a couple of times what with illness etc).