Do any elite men see the 1500 and mile WR's as attainable?

ventolin^3 wrote:

imbecile

what golden league 800 did he run in '01 or '04 ???

1:46 and 2:16 are pitiful pbs for someone who has run 3:26

idiot

what golden league 800 did he run in '01 or '04 ???

Why focus on 01 or 04!? He was in 3:30 form or better every year from 99 to 06, and as such should have had no problems running significantly under 1:46. He ran enough of them. They don't need to be golden league meets idiot!

Any top notch European meet will suffice. He ran 1:46.06 in Koln in 99, coming 4th a long way behind Konchellah's 1:44.77. Seem to remember Cruz running pretty well in Koln in 84, and that wasn't golden league.

In 2000 he was 3rd in Helsinki (another top international venue for many years) in 1:46.85, more than 2.5 secs behind Kipketer (1:44.27). He was a 3:28 guy in 2000, so he should have been challenging Kip all the way in a low 1:44 race.

moron

it was the peak 1500 years of his career & therfore the years he wouda been fastest at 800

or are you so idiotic you can't comprehend this ???

moron

can't you comprehend the difference between 3'30 & 3'26/3'27 ability over 800 ???

eh ???

i call 1/4 dozen/season "enough"

list them moron

err...

moron

haven't you learnt anything in your "35y of following the sport" where the best fields/wabbits are congregate ???

bratislava ?

rethimo ??

florence ???

drivel

it has to be a well-established meet or concerns of short-track/timing flaws negate it

& what was the 400 split ?

was it 50-flat so he was motivated for a 1'43 ???

a track which had seen wrs before - from donkova - an established track - no florence track here...

yeah

a place normally freezing cold & pissing down with rain, which is only on the circuit for the domestic spear-chuckers demanding it

apart from geb's 10k wr there on an unprecedented temperate day, name the 800 - 5k stadium records ???

& what was the 400 split ?

what was race description ??

how does that compare with a flying last 1'46 in athens with 700m of lactate in the legs, moron ???

Stats from IAAF.org

Bernard Lagat:

800 Metres 2009 1:46.84 Lausanne 07/07/2009

2005 1:47.07 Kingston, JAM 07/05/2005

2004 1:46.96 Walnut, CA 18/04/2004

2003 1:46.00 Berlin 10/08/2003

2002 1:46.90 Palo Alto, CA 30/03/2002

2000 1:46.85 Helsinki 15/06/2000

1999 1:46.06 Köln 08/08/1999

1998 1:46.02 Paris 29/07/1998

1000 Metres 2009 2:17.52 Stockholm 31/07/2009

2008 2:16.18 Gateshead 31/08/2008

2007 2:16.25 Stockholm 07/08/2007

2000 2:18.70 Sydney 14/09/2000

Sprint Geezer wrote:

ElG's times seem like the East German or Chinese women's times, or like Flojo's times, which I don't think anybody sees as attainable.

Middle distance people, are they reasonable times to shoot for, or are they out of reach?

I know MJ's 200 and 400 times seemed like this until Bolt came along. Now Bolt's times are in that league as well.

I know special conditions are required for a 1500/mile WR to be set. Anybody know of an upcoming meet that might fulfill WR criteria, w/rabbits, conditions, field, etc?

All of the current WRs with the probable exception of Seko's WRs for 25 & 30 K were achieved by athletes on PEDs; all of these records can only be broken by other athletes on PEDs. Yes, given the right athlete and the right drugs, it is certainly possible for the mile and 1500 records to fall.

Lagat has had a long career with plenty of 800m's none faster than 1:46. Maybe he could have gone a bit faster but 1:43.0 - no chance.

We have just disproved your theory about 3:26 guys

having 'the capability to run 1:43 flat'

The reason is the Lagat is a miler / 5km type as opposed to an 800m/ 1500m type. He is making up with a bit of a lack of speed by having fantastic endurance

It’s a bit like Kipketer and the 1500m you might expect that he would run 3:30 but he came nowhere near

ventolin^3 wrote:

& what was the 400 split ?

was it 50-flat so he was motivated for a 1'43 ???

The Berlin 2003 ISTAF meet where Lagat ran his PB went out in 50.72 -

.

So, big meet, fast race, ran a PB - what other excuse can you dream up?

only me wrote:

ventolin^3 wrote:

& what was the 400 split ?

was it 50-flat so he was motivated for a 1'43 ???

The Berlin 2003 ISTAF meet where Lagat ran his PB went out in 50.72 -

http://www.istaf.de/content.php?content=istaf2003&disz=5

.

So, big meet, fast race, ran a PB - what other excuse can you dream up?

Exactly. Ventolin is in denial and clutching at straws.

Berlin is a big meet, and he's run 51 secs last laps, so following a rabbit (50.72) in about 51.0, is not too fast and perfect pacing for someone with "supposed" 1:43 potential. He came nowhere near!

Andrew Wheating in his prime will run 3:25 and outkick anyone who dares run 3:26. He is ahead of Lagat at this stage in his career by a long shot and obviously has the necessary speed. Webb is so 5 minutes ago...

only me wrote:The Berlin 2003 ISTAF meet where Lagat ran his PB went out in 50.72 -

http://www.istaf.de/content.php?content=istaf2003&disz=5

.

So, big meet, fast race, ran a PB - what other excuse can you dream up?

err...

i put the stipulation in '01 when he was in 3'26 shape

in '03 his best was 3'30.55 !

he ran 1'46.00 that year

what do you think he wouda run for 800 in 3'26 shape ???

nonsense

you've disproved nothing

his 5k in '01 was a derisory 13'30

if you think that makes a 3'26 guy a 1500/5k type then you clearly have no clue about the sport

as for kip, was more or less an out & out 800 guy albeit with some maintenance of form upto the 1k distance ( indoor wr ) - no one here has claimed anything superlative for him at 1500 - he didn't need it for his 800 speciality - his overdistance track work may not even have been beyond 1k

Is Webb too old/been injured too long to have a shot?

3:53 (2001), disappeared 2 years then 3:50 (2004), 3:48 (2005), injured early 2006 then 3:46 (2007).

The second a year would put him at 3:43 this year...

Can he bounce back from the last 3 years? He's come back from other bad hiccups in the career, but the hour is late...

ventolin^3 wrote:

err...

i put the stipulation in '01 when he was in 3'26 shape

err...

No you didn't, what you said was:

realistically, to run 3'26.0, you have to have ~ 1'43-flat ability as a pre-requisite

I've bolded up the relevant word. Lagat never demonstrated 1:43 ability at any time in his career - so you are wrong.

what do you think he wouda run for 800 in 3'26 shape ???

I think he would have run 1:46.

his 5k in '01 was a derisory 13'30' Well to use your words I was going of his 5,000m 'ability' He had already run 13.23 the previous year - both in some tin pot race in America

Lagat is a 1500m / 5,000m type off his pr's of 3:26 and 12:54. Despite running numerous 800m race he has never broken 1:46. These are the facts yours is just unfounded and incorrect conjecture

One more fact for you, no sub 3:29 1500m runner has broken 1:44 in a race

I seem to remember you going on about Lagat breaking 7:30 in that race with BK. You were wrong then and you are wrong again now.

13'23 for a guy who runs 3'26 the following year ?!

you call that substantial evidence of a 1500/5k guy ???

the concept of <3'30 guy who coudn't run 13'20+ off just their 1500 ability incomprehensible to you ???

err...

9y apart ?!?!

geb ran 3'31i ( 2nd fastest ever ) & now holds M wr - does that make him a 1500/M guy ???

learn to read - where was his 800m race in '01 in zurich or rome or berlin or monaco ???

drivel

you don't think cram or aouita coudn't have gone <3'29 in '85 if they'd had better wabbited races ( cram's 3'46 off a pathetic 2'53 & aouita's 3'29 with a stunning 52.7 last lap ) ???

i haven't even mentioned hicham's/noah's/bernie's/morceli's talent as compared to baala

yeah, that's 8y after his 3'26 when he has made a serious commitment to 5k

what do you think he can for 3k this year off his 12'54 & still reasonable 1500 speed ?

ventolin^3 wrote:

learn to read - where was his 800m race in '01 in zurich or rome or berlin or monaco ???

Baala ran his PB in Rieti - that's not Zurich, Rome, Berlin or Monaco so, by your own standards, it doesn't count.

Alternatively, if we're taking races outside the Golden League when it suits us, we know EXACTLY what Lagat could have run for 800 in '01 - 1:48, which he ran indoors in Moscow, Idaho in Feb 01.

Either both marks are valid, or they are both out - you choose.

I'm not going through all that lot!

You said to run 3:26 you had to run 1:43 flat. Bringing up Cram or Aouita does not alter the fact that no* sub 3:29 runner has broken 1:44

*I'll give you Baala I missed that one

Yes Cram or Coe on todays tracks/training could have have done those times. But you said ALL runners had to be have the ability to do 1:43 to run those times. The facts are this is cleary not the case

Stop going on about 2001 he has still run 1:46 in years when he has been doing 3:27.

I'm suprised you have not bought up El G's 1:43 in training. As if someone who could run that in training would never run an 800m!

As for Lagat well he's gone off the boil. He is a supreme tactical runner & at his best in championships when it counts. You would have thought he could go sub 7:30 but he never has. I brought up that because you said given a good European race and competition he would definitely do it - he raced KB & fell short. Although I should thank you - you raised my interest so I placed a bet on KB to win the race -cheers

Sprint Geezer wrote:

Since there appears to be general consensus that ElG was doping, is there also general consensus that Ngeny was doping?

If not, can he rightfully be considered to be the fastest clean middle distance runner ever?

There isn't a general consensus that El Gerrouj was doping. It's just the usual trolls who are jealous of those who put the work in and achieve greatness.

He was the last runner who actually chased the 1500 and Mile records. That requires a particualar ambition which no-one since has displayed.

only me wrote:

Baala ran his PB in Rieti - that's not Zurich, Rome, Berlin or Monaco so, by your own standards, it doesn't count.[/quote]

it counts

but it may have been quicker in "Zurich, Rome, Berlin or Monaco so" with better fields/etc

where's bernie's 800m in rieti in '01 ???