Kaki is going for world record in 1000m

collgecoach wrote:

Well maybe Nick Symmonds will beat him and break the world as kaki would be perfect pace maker for Symmonds

Symmonds has no chance.

To break the world record for 1000m you've got to be equally good at 800 and 1500, capable of 1:43.0 and 3:30 or 1:42 & 3:32. Now Kaki has no real form over the 1500, but I'd say he was more an 800/1500 guy than a 400/800 one, like Rudisha. Kaki has more of a chance than Rudisha, certainly.

When Coe ran 2:12.1 he was in 1:41.0 and sub 3:30 form. He'd probably have gone 2:11.5 had he pacing for a bit further (led from 600m) and not run a suicidally fast 1500 a few days earlier.

Ngeny went off too fast, but this was compensated for somewhat by being towed towards 750m. He ran a 3:43 Mile that year and must have been in 1:43 flat -1:43.5 shape.

So, Kaki is probably faster (1:42.2 recently) than Ngeny could have run, but he is almost certainly not capable of a 3:43 Mile. Likewise, he's not as fast as Coe over 800 (though getting closer)and not as good at 1500m. Based on these stats, he shouldn't get it.

IF, however, Kaki is capable of 3:32 for 1500, and has perfect pace - 26.0, 52.0, 1:18.0, 1:44.5, up to 800m (behind a rabbit drafting him), he may come very close.

grand slam wrote:

IF, however, Kaki is capable of 3:32 for 1500, and has perfect pace - 26.0, 52.0, 1:18.0, 1:44.5, up to 800m (behind a rabbit drafting him), he may come very close.

Listen up guys it is very very difficult running those sorts of splits. apart from the first 100 is always faster (therefore meaning they slow down 2nd 100 to get to 26?) do you not notice that the natural/obvious way to run a fast 800 is with a faster first lap .......there needs to be a 'cruise mode' for a period after halfway. I'm not sure many of you have run 800s if you encourage these splits. Do you also think a 400 runner should run 22.0 to get 44.0? Easy to tap on you laptop; in reality doesn't happen like this. Wise up.

Python wrote:

Ngeny's splits: 49.66 53.9 (1:44.6) 27.4 (2:11.96)

50.66 for first lap?

Am I the only one who every time I hear the name "Kaki", I think of a Brazilian footballer (soccer player)?

Do you mean Andrew Robbies?

no-one gets it wrote:

grand slam wrote:

IF, however, Kaki is capable of 3:32 for 1500, and has perfect pace - 26.0, 52.0, 1:18.0, 1:44.5, up to 800m (behind a rabbit drafting him), he may come very close.

Listen up guys it is very very difficult running those sorts of splits. apart from the first 100 is always faster (therefore meaning they slow down 2nd 100 to get to 26?) do you not notice that the natural/obvious way to run a fast 800 is with a faster first lap .......there needs to be a 'cruise mode' for a period after halfway. I'm not sure many of you have run 800s if you encourage these splits. Do you also think a 400 runner should run 22.0 to get 44.0? Easy to tap on you laptop; in reality doesn't happen like this. Wise up.

Coe himself wanted to hit 400m in about 52.0, then get to 800 in about 1:45. That still means he went out faster on first lap and slowed to 53 on second. Of course most 800s are run with a faster 1st lap, and for someone trying to run sub 1:42, you need to be at 400 by 50.5 minimum. However, the longer a race, the more efficient it is to run even laps. Look at EL G's Mile WR, the differential between each of the 4 laps was no more than a second.

I think the Coe's knew what they were doing in trying to run efficiently. Coe did run quite a few 800s to know what would produce the best time. You're not going to break the 1000m going out in 49 flat. The 49.66 was for the rabbit in Ngeny's race; he still went through too quick in about 50.1.

Kaki and Kiprop should hire Rudisha to pace them through 800.

Kaki ran 1:43.46 the other day in torino off a an opening lap of around 49.75

Torino -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5xjXxiMiFc

Oslo -

In his race against Rudisha in Oslo when they went out at that ridiculous pace you could tell David was in much better race shape. Kaki held up very well but didnt have the legs in the last 50m and he was straining with 150m to go. But good gracious was he trying his best to beat him.

The race in Torino he had the same problem with form and fatigue, and you can see the agony on his face with 50m to go. If he wants the record he needs to run the last 200m in 28.45 and right now I dont see it.

He will get to that point though.

Here is the Oslo race

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyAsBf0XVPg

Don't talk about it, be about it!

I would love to see David in this race, that'd get the record for sure.

grand slam wrote:To break the world record for 1000m you've got to be equally good at 800 and 1500, capable of 1:43.0 and 3:30 or 1:42 & 3:32

nonsense

the 1k is much closer to 800m than 1500m

1k is 200m from 800m but 700m from 1500m

ballpark inference then is that 800m speed is 3.5 more important than 1500 endurance

any guy who can run 1'42 has some serious endurance issues if he can't run a 2'12 if he has a coupla decent shots at it

ventolin, just download the correct splits into his body, and he will obviously get it!

So anyway a world record holder trains or runs can't be criticized? There are more important things that the specifics of training or pacing when looking at results.Looking at one race is meaningless. Look at a couple hundred and you get much better patterns. There are very few people (with PRs under 1:45) who have set 800m PRs with negative splits. Now that could be that they all go out too fast, but I doubt it. No one goes out in 52 and back in 51 (even the guys that hang back don't negative split very often).

malmo wrote:

noobgaloreman wrote:

So? Who cares, that's how HE broke the record. Maybe there is a better way to run it, you just need the right person to do it.

True to form, someone on Letsrun thinks there's a better way to do something than what the best have done.

Maybe he should work on his starts?

malmo wrote:

True to form, someone on Letsrun thinks there's a better way to do something than what the best have done.

Maybe he should work on his starts?

You think going out in 49 yielded the best result? Sure he got the WR, did he run it well? No.

Tough to understand, the only reason I ever go out to fast is if the PA starts cranking Nickelback and I get too excited.

ventolin^3 wrote:

grand slam wrote:To break the world record for 1000m you've got to be equally good at 800 and 1500, capable of 1:43.0 and 3:30 or 1:42 & 3:32

nonsense

the 1k is much closer to 800m than 1500m

1k is 200m from 800m but 700m from 1500m

ballpark inference then is that 800m speed is 3.5 more important than 1500 endurance

any guy who can run 1'42 has some serious endurance issues if he can't run a 2'12 if he has a coupla decent shots at it

1 2:11.96 Noah Ngeny

2 2:12.18 Sebastian Coe

3 2:12.66 Noah Ngeny

4 2:12.88 Steve Cram

5 2:13.40 Sebastian Coe

6 2:13.56 Kenneth Kimwetich

7 2:13.73 Noureddine Morceli

8 2:13.9 Rick Wohlhuter

9 2:13.93 Abubaker Kaki Khamis

10 2:13.96 Mehdi Baala

The history of the event would suggest you're talking b***ocks!

The top 10 all-time list above shows only 3 men who have run 1:42 (<1:43.0)

And apart from Kaki, the other 2 are ex 1500m/Miler world record holders.

Where are all these 1:42 guys (not that there are many of them in history period, let alone now in 2010) that can run 2:12?

If it were so easy, then there would be far more sub 2:13 times from those guys who fancied they might be a world record holder.

Morceli had several shots and came up short because he didn't have the 800m speed. Cruz also failed to even break 2:14, despite a genuine effort in 84 after the LA Olympics, because he hadn't the endurance to run 3:32.

Stating the obvious that 1000m is nearer to 800m than a 1500, is missing the point. My original comment stands, backed up with years of factual evidence. You need to be of a certain standard at both.

The 10k is closer to the 100 than the Marathon......

I haven't checked but how many of the 800 guys even ran a 1000? For example how many 1000m did guys like Johnny Gray, Borzakovskiy, Koskei, Bugei, Bucher, Rodal, and Kipketer run? And notice how 1500m super stars like El G and Lagat are not in the top 25 and even guys like Peter Elliot (sub 3:50 miler and 1:43) don't have great times either? In rarely run events, you can't really draw a lot of conclusions. Have a 5 million dollar winner take all 1000m and the all time 1000m list would get some new entries.

i woud suggest without hesitation that the elite 800 or 1500 guys run at least 1/2-dozen wabbited pb chasings/season on euro/american/asian circuit over 800 or 1500

there is barely 1 quality 1k race on the whole circuit/season - it seems to be stockholm - & the 1k hasn't been run there every year for past 5y !

statistical theory states that the likelihood of improvement with increasing frequency of an event is

~ n^1/2

where n is increased frequency of event

for n = 6, we are talking

~ 2.5

therefore, logic implies, that if the 1k was run with similar frequency to the 800 or 1500 on the circuit, the

current stats of

< 2'12 = 1

2'12 - 2'13 = 2

2'13 - 2'14 = 5

2'14 - 2'15 = 14

would look ~

< 2'12 = 2.5

2'12 - 2'13 = 5

2'13 - 2'14 = 12.5

2'14 - 2'15 = 35

& it's possible/probable that the <2'12 woud be <2'11

dasfasd@hasd.com wrote:

I haven't checked but how many of the 800 guys even ran a 1000? For example how many 1000m did guys like Johnny Gray, Borzakovskiy, Koskei, Bugei, Bucher, Rodal, and Kipketer run? And notice how 1500m super stars like El G and Lagat are not in the top 25 and even guys like Peter Elliot (sub 3:50 miler and 1:43) don't have great times either? In rarely run events, you can't really draw a lot of conclusions. Have a 5 million dollar winner take all 1000m and the all time 1000m list would get some new entries.

Probably because Gray, Borza, Bucher, Kipketer et al had no chance of breaking 2:13. If they believed they could run 2:12 then they'd have a shot at the record, right? If any of them thought that was a possibility they'd be queuing up to run 1000's every other week, coz Kipketer apart, none of them had a rat in hells chance of breaking the record in their favoured 800 distance.

8 of the top 10 are 1500m runners. The average 800 speed merchant hasn't got the endurance to tag another 27 on the end of a 1:45. If everyone trained specifically for 1000 then there would be faster times, but whats the point if its a non championship event? It's a hard event to excel in because you need to come at it from both ends.

Kaki will run 2:13.4