hoping to run 5000m in 13:45

This is what I think too. Aim to break 14:00. If the tempo feels good, you can negative split your way to a nice PR. Maybe go out at 67s...

not sure, wrote:

nj wrote:

If you had done 3x1600m in 4:22 to 4:24 but with 200m jog rests you would know for sure you could run 13:45, if you had done them with 400m jog rest you'd be pretty sure.

... 200m jog rest, then 5x1k at goal pace 200m jog, then 3x1600 with 200m jog again at goal).

How fast or slow are the jog recoveries? Does it matter whether it's variable? Is heart rate to recover down to some % of max, (but not lower)?

Personally I'd prefer 400m moderate jogs, 1/2 pace or slower.

Salazar took 3:00 for the 400m jog recoveries.

J.R. wrote:

not sure, wrote:

How fast or slow are the jog recoveries? Does it matter whether it's variable? Is heart rate to recover down to some % of max, (but not lower)?

Personally I'd prefer 400m moderate jogs, 1/2 pace or slower.

Salazar took 3:00 for the 400m jog recoveries.

The jogs should be fairly quick, at least under a minute. The idea of doing a 3:00 400m is completly counter productive. It will allow you do 'muscle' the interval and not give you a specific training effect. Look at your specific workouts as trying to build your race. So if you have the goal of 5000m in 13:45 and you have any shot at it then you can very easily run 12x400m in 66, if you take enough rest- so you are capable of covering the distance at the pace. What is the difference between 12x400m at 66 and running 5000m (4800m really but close enough) at that pace? The REST! Too often coaches and athletes do a workout then come back and try to do the workout faster. this is fine in the base and early season periods but when you are trying to get ready for a race this isn't how you want to approach it. (exception would be if you follow a Vigil like program where you run say 6xmile each week at a slow pace- about half marathon to marathon pace then you would try to work that pace down to 10k pace as you approach your 10k race)

So you start with your 12x400m with say 100m jog rest( 30 seconds or faster) at 5k pace-66- this means you need to be aerobically quite fit as you will be covering each 500m block(rest included) in 1:36 or faster (which is about 5:08 mile pace). I would also do a 100m jog after the 12th 400 and then a 200 HARD to simulate kicking. Then the next week, you do 8x600m at 1:39 with 200m jog rest- the increase from 400 to 600m is huge so increasing the rest on this one makes the transition much smoother. the 200m jog should be under a minute. IF you are feeling strong try make the last 600m an 800m and KICK the last 200m (should be 30 of faster) if you are hurting then do a 100m jog after the last 600m and run a Hard 200m again to work on developing a kick for your race.

Week 3 you keep the 200m rests but increase the interval distance to 800m so now 6x800m in 2:12 with 200m jog rest(under 1 min) in this workout you will be back to covering the same 6200m or so as in workout 1 at that sub 5:10 mile pace. This forces the workout to become much like a 5000m race an extremely anaerobic performance but one that requires a huge aerobic capacity to complete it. For example I think every HS kid in the country who can break 4:40 has run 10x400m in 65 with what I would call long rests or a similar workout but only maybe a 100 HS kids in the country could run 5000m in 15:27 which is how long it took me to run 5000m during my 10x400m in 69/70 with 100 jog after EVERY interval this week. The rest is THE KEY to the workout. Again either make the last rep a 1k and kick the last 200m or jog 50 to 100m after the last rep and then do a hard 200m with whatever you have left in the tank.

week 4 5x1k still with 200m rest in under a minute. So for this workout you will average 5:00 mile pace or better including your rests- so you are really testing the aerobic system as well as the anaerobic. And you are really starting to guide your body towards the task at hand, running 5000m at 66 pace without any rests. Also in this workout you are forced to kick off the pace which is good, you don't get a jog break before you have to kick in a race after all. I'm constantly amazed at guys who take a solid rest before their last interval, hammer it, but wonder why they can't kick. the hardest part of the kick is shifting gears while your tired, you NEED to work on that in workouts to be effective in races.

Now to be honest I never do 5k paced intervals longer then 1k. I'm not much of a workout guy and I frankly can't do it. But if you run lower mileage(and hence are fresher in your workouts) or if you are a real good workout guy (Ritz ran 10 miles in a workout at full training volume at his half marathon pace, I can barely run 7 on a great day), then you can push onto longer reps, again keeping the rests short. 4x1200m with 200 rest and 3x1600m with 200m rest being the obvious next steps. Or you can try running 5x1k at 2:45 again but cut the rest to 100m in 30 seconds or less.

By doing repeats with longer rest we teach ourselves to do repeats very well. This is certainly the case with the majority of American distance runners. I continually see very impressive sessions on this site from guys who's race times simply aren't impressive. A lot of guys in the past and a lot of very good runners have done reps with long rests, but they doesn't mean it was right. Also a lot of times those workouts are taken out of context when they are repeated.

Again, in early season and base they are great, also when used to teach relaxation at pace and try to build muscular endurance. But when it is time to get ready to race a set pace for a distance it is time to build towards that effort not to start doing workouts at a faster pace with longer rest.

Awesome post. However, one is never going "anaerobic" in the midst of long intervals. People throw that term around too much.

J.R. wrote:

Personally I'd prefer 400m moderate jogs, 1/2 pace or slower.

Salazar took 3:00 for the 400m jog recoveries.

So whose advice should he follow? 1/2 pace for Salazar would be 70-72 pace.

So are you saying that Salazar trained poorly according to you, or are you just bad at math?

newname wrote:

So whose advice should he follow? 1/2 pace for Salazar would be 70-72 pace.

So are you saying that Salazar trained poorly according to you, or are you just bad at math?

Umm, if you are doing repeats at 4:20 per mile, half pace would be 8:40 per mile. Salazar was doing jogs at slower than 1/2 pace. MORON