American Record vs. American CITIZENS record

while i would have loved for the AR to be broken today by an American Born (Solinsky), i am still super excited that an American Record was set

i guess i would prefer american born people to have the records, but if a record falls i am still pretty happy

Your Thoughts....... wrote:

Les wrote:

Why not have segregated BLACK vs. WHITE records, this is what you really mean.

No, It's not. I guess I live a sheltered life. Actually, that thought never even occurred to me until it was brought up here.

You must not visit the Lets Run boards much. There's a lot of racists here. I wonder if Marius Bakken (the Norwegian 5000 recordholder who went to high school here) had become a US citizen and become the 5000 recordholder would people be saying that he's not a real American the way people say Lagat is not a real American. Somehow, I doubt it.

Frank Shorter was born in Munich, Germany....

One of our greatest distance runners wasn't born here. Is he German? American? What the hell?

Yea butt... wrote:

Frank Shorter was born in Munich, Germany....

One of our greatest distance runners wasn't born here. Is he German? American? What the hell?

He was born on a U.S. army base - so technically that is U.S. soil.

Nutella1 wrote:

Les wrote:

Why not have segregated BLACK vs. WHITE records, this is what you really mean.

You have to go further:

- white record

- black record

- asian record

- middle easern record

- Indian Asian record

- Native American record

- inuit record (if not pulled by a dog)

- ...

Now what about mixed? Do you make a difference between White/Asian and Inuit/Black or Native American/Asian?

What about those from 3 or 4 races heritage?

If you want to identify yourself with people of same skin color and not cititzenship then the United States is not for you.

(Now I am really curious what the American 5000m record for inuits is :-))

Or simply....

Born in the U.S. is an American Record

U.S. Citizen born in another country is an American Citizen Record

AlSal also not born in USA. Colleen de Reuck not born in USA. Both set ARs (de Reuck a masters' AR). So let's take those away.

Since the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation has tribal sovereignty, then Billy Mills shouldn't have been considered an American. Let's get rid of his ARs.

If you have to be born in the USA to set an AR, you should certainly be living in the USA. So get rid of ARs by Bob Kennedy and Buddy Edelen, both living in England at the time.

Not only should YOU be born in the USA, so should your parents. So let's take away records from Steve Prefontaine.

What the hell...let's abandon the whole idea of citizenship. You get an AR if you have four American grandparents, and another kind of AR if you have three or four foreign grandparents.

Wait, I got that wrong. You're German if you have four German grandparents, and Jewish if you have three or four Jewish grandparents. That's it, we'll use the Riech Citizenship Law! Sieg Heil!

Lagat holds BOTH the American Record (AR) and the American Citizens Record (ACR). Ritz holds the American Born Record (ABR). If you really must make a distinction.

You apparently understand neither the spelling nor the meaning of the word "mercenary."When does an immigrant become a certified "US born" athlete? If two Kenyans make a baby and he happens to be born in the US, he is more "US born" than a guy who was born overseas but spent his whole life in the US?All you guys are a bunch of morons. National records are:A) Based on location of citizenship at the time of the race and, more importantly:B) Pretty stupid. Think about it. Why do we even track citizenship for running times? It's pretty stupid. "I'm the fastest guy who has filled out paperwork in a geographical area." Great.

PC gone wild wrote:

Granted US is a melting pot, but when you have been an international class runner (one of the best runners in the history of the world) for another country and move over to the US as a mercinary it's different than being born here.

Dr. Obvious wrote:

why are we differentiating against immigrants from 10 years ago with immigrants from before that? It doesn't make any sense.

If you emigrate somewhere, you are an immigrant. If you were born somewhere, you did not emigrate there, and are thus not an immigrant.

Honestly, why is this so hard for people to grasp?

Lagat does not hold the US citizens record. He is Kenyan.

Solinsky does not hold the Us citizens record. He is Polish.

Ritzenhein does not hold the US citizens record. he is German.

Famigletti does not hold the US citizens record. he is Italian.

Meb K******* does not hold the US citizens record. he is eritrean.

Salazar does not hold the US citizens record. he is Cuban.

Kennedy does not hold the US citizens record. he is Irish.

Tegenkamp does not the US citizens record. he is German.

Maree does not hold the US citizens record. He is South African.

Webb does not hold the US citizens record. he is Scottish.

Goucher? where the heck does the name Goucher come from?

I love the idea!

but then again....it's un-American to be American...and to reserve the right to cheer for people raised in a America!....but I am sticking to my guns....I will never cheer for a transplant!

LAGAT IS NOT A REAL AMERICAN.

You're right, it wouldn't be an issue. The reason is because Sweden's runners (or any other runners of European descent) don't have the genetic advantage that African runners have. Lagat, and all other runners from African who come to the United States will always be ringers.

If some Ethiopean kid moves to the US and runs a sub 4 mile while in HS, it just doesn't excite me, because it's not a special performance for an Ethiopean. If a white kid born in Iowa breaks 4 minutes, THAT'S exciting...because it's exceptional.

No, it's not politically correct to express this viewpoint, but it is, however, REALITY.

lovely turtles wrote:

Lagat ...chose to come here because of quality of life issues for him and his family.

his wife is Canadian....he has the opportunity to enjoy a far higher standard of living, but probably doesn't like the cold, has friends in AZ etc.

I would not be at all surprised if they relocate to Canada when he retires...

If 2 Kenyans make a baby, that baby is still genetically a Kenyan, even if he or she is born in the US. Therefore, if that baby grows up a runs a sub 4 in HS, it's a great performance, but it's not as spectular compared to a similar performance by a European American. Understand?

So we should test children for genetic advantage?

Those who are too good, leave.

...the American way!.....

I think I read it differently from how other people did. I didn't interpret it as having anything to do with racism. I see the point as differentiating between US born and non-

US born. I don't understand what that has to with race at all. I'm Asian American and have seen my share of racism and don't think anything is wrong with it. This is a matter of citizenship and birth county. NOT ethnicity and race. Don't turn everything into a race issue just because it's easier to win because then you can call the other person racist.

Nice pretty PC post! But of course, as with all PC crap, you're ignoring biology. Africans are gentically athletically more gifted than Europeans. West Africans are more muscular than Europeans and East Africans have genetic alleles that enable them to utilize oxygen much more efficiently.

The PC crowd like to pretend that race is imaginary, but it's not. Different races suffer from different diseases (Sickle Cell, Tay Sachs) because their immune systems are different. Genes code for all of the proteins that make up immune cells.

Why is it so hard for educated people to realize that the different evolutionary paths that Africans and Europeans have taken in the last 50,000 to 100,000 years have endowed each race with different abilities. Can't we just accept reality instead of burying out heads in the sand and pretending all races are exactly the same?

I'm not saying anyone has to leave. I'm just not willing to pretend that a Kenyan who has changed singlets holds an "American" record. If a Kenyan changes passports it doesn't change his DNA.