'Therefore I'd be left thinking it would be an inherent trait. I would think that any reasonably sustained exposure to altitude would then develop it to the same degree'
I go off the evidence and facts not theories
The fact is EA elite athletes were born and lived at altitude. Those with EA genes but not born at & living at altitude have had little success
Mo Farah was born in Mogadishu, which kind of puts a hole in your theory.
Back to what really matters - incredible performance yesterday by Mo, surely this is the year where he will crack 13 mins!
Waiting to get flamed wrote:
Mo is a great guy, 100% British and trains hard. But it would be sad if a guy with East African genes takes all the UK records. A shame for any young Brits chasing those times.
I know there is no resolution for this. Mo is British and nationality has a broad mix of genes. I have no issue with this.
But on another level it seems unfair. I guess it is what it is.
You are completely contradicting yourself.
on the one hand you say you have no issues with him being of mixed genes. Then you say it would be sad if a guy with EA genes wins takes all the records.
on the one hand you say he's 100% British and on the other hand you say it's a shame for young Brits to have to chase his times (implying his times aren't really British).
Make your mind up.
sub13mins wrote:
Back to what really matters - incredible performance yesterday by Mo, surely this is the year where he will crack 13 mins!
It's a very good performance, about what you would expect from him on a good day. He is the fastest Brit because he is the most serious, he's not wasting his talent like so many others. Good for him and Chris Thompson.
Who is to say Thompson wasn't feeling a little off ? Farah is surely in good shape but this race doesn't automatically make him a write-in for sub 27.
I'd say beating Kogo, suggests he is very good shape!
only me wrote:
Mo Farah was born in Mogadishu, which kind of puts a hole in your theory.
Every Somali refuge says that they were born in Mogadishu.
mopak wrote:
I'm curious whether you have any science to back that up, not having a crack at you, just curious?
I think the link with living at altitude is still a bit questionable.
Do non EA people born and raised at altitude share this "advantage"?
I have seen no evidence of that.
Therefore I'd be left thinking it would be an inherent trait. I would think that any reasonably sustained exposure to altitude would then develop it to the same degree.
Being in the womb, born and grown your first few years of life at high altitude would give you physiological advantages that you would never be able to change later. The heart grows bigger and stronger (per beat) the chest cavity grows larger, lungs bigger, yet body mass smaller.
Basically you have a big pair of lungs to suck in O2, a big strong heart to deliver it to the body per beat, and a smaller body to deliver it to. That equals more oxygen per cell.
Think of a suzuki rice rocket motorcycle vs. a 4 cyclinder SUV. The motorcycle blast out using less fuel and leaving the heavier SUV lugging behind in the dust.
This all happens in the first couple years of life and it's not something you can change at 10 years or 20 years if you were born at low elevation.
Waiting to get flamed wrote:
...A shame for any young Brits chasing those times...
So your definition of "young Brit" is white?
seensomefugginraces wrote:yet body mass smaller
eh ???
why ???
only me wrote:
Mo Farah was born in Mogadishu, which kind of puts a hole in your theory.
Mogadishu is at sea level and to clarify I was not putting Farah good as he is on the level of elite EA runners
Someone said he had the advantage of EA heritage and I pointed out he was not born at altitude
lsdkfjl;skfj;skldjf wrote:
Who is to say Thompson wasn't feeling a little off ? Farah is surely in good shape but this race doesn't automatically make him a write-in for sub 27.
Never said it did. If you read my quote all I said was that it means Farah is in good shape. What that means for a track 10000, who knows? But he is in damn good shape right now as evidence by how much he beat Thompson, bad day for him or no.
ventolin^3 wrote:
seensomefugginraces wrote:yet body mass smallereh ???
why ???
Because the body naturally chooses how to be efficient and where to put it's resources based on surrounding enviroment. Gravity is also less at higher elevations, requiring less bone mass for support. It's kind of a common sense give and take. If the body is going to put so much energy in developing the heart and lungs and chest cavity (especially on a limited nutrition diet) it's not going to put as much effort into making large thick bones and muscles.
On the flip side someone born in a higher gravity and higher oxygen environment requires less efficiency for processing 02 but more protection against gravities forces (bones and muscles) and as a result it develops accordingly.
Why did you think the fast (born at high elevations) Kenyans and Ethiopians are like toothpick legs with a massive (relative to limb size) rib cages, and yet the lower elevation Nigerians can be quite thick and muscular? Did you think it was simply coincidence?
As posted by "seensomefugginraces" the development is most substantial between development inside the mother (who is walking and workin at altitude with less oxygen) and the first couple years of life.
Basically if you want fast distance runner kid, you'll increase your chances by giving them the appropriate engine, which is done when being born at altitude.
reality bytes wrote:Because the body naturally chooses how to be efficient and where to put it's resources based on surrounding enviroment. Gravity is also less at higher elevations, requiring less bone mass for support
err...
g = K/radius^2
at sea-level it's 9.81
at 2km it's ~
9.81 * (6400/6402)^1/2 = 9.808
or 0.02% less
try again...
especially on a limited nutrition diet
the only relevant point
ukathleticscoach wrote:
'Therefore I'd be left thinking it would be an inherent trait. I would think that any reasonably sustained exposure to altitude would then develop it to the same degree'
I go off the evidence and facts not theories
The fact is EA elite athletes were born and lived at altitude. Those with EA genes but not born at & living at altitude have had little success
I agree that EA athletes born and raised at altitude have had most success. However, this isn't proof that the being born and raised at altitude is THE reason.
I have not seen any evidence of this among other populations. Spanish distance runners compared to Spanish/Mexican as an example. Americans, Swiss, Austrians, Italians, Germans etc. all have populations born and raised (and concieved) at altitude. We don't see a noticeable difference in performance from these groups.
Today Mo won the European Challenge of 10000m on track in Marseille with his new PB of 27:28.86. He was aided by the Kenyan Philemon Limo for 6 km at the pace of 27:30, after he ran alone, with the second very far (28:12).
Five days only after his PB on road, Mo was able to do exactly what he wanted to do (his goal was to run in 27:30).
I'm very happy that he understood how to use altitude for specific training, and what to do immediately after going back to see level.
His main goal for this season is to win gold in 10000m in European Champioships in Barcelona, now he runs in European Cup, goes again in altitude, tries to better his PB in 5000m about 10th of July, goes back to altitude before European Champs, going to Barcelona only the day before 10000m.
He is the first European runner developing a full program of training like a Kenyan.
Congratulation, Mo !
You're not 'advising' him now are you Mr Italian coach?
If Mo Farah has decided to seek the services of Mr Canova then it goes to show that he is hungry for success and so deserves all the glory and credit when he performs well as he has been doing of late.It is worth noting that British athletes are too proud and snobish to an extend that they sneer at the idea of going to a place like Iten in Kenya for altitude training yet Mo Farah has humbled himself and decided to go and live amoungst the kenyans and train with them while also benefitting from altitude training.