If I remember correctly I crossed the 10 mile mark of a half marathon in 68 while I was in 18:45 5k shape. My times probably would have been right around 12 and 65 for 3200 and a hard 10 mile. I was running alone in a small race for the half.
If I remember correctly I crossed the 10 mile mark of a half marathon in 68 while I was in 18:45 5k shape. My times probably would have been right around 12 and 65 for 3200 and a hard 10 mile. I was running alone in a small race for the half.
Assuming she's in high school, she probably ran her 3200 with a big positive split, and has the potential to go faster in a well paced race. I don't think I ever ran the second 1600 of a high school 3200 withing 20 seconds of the first 1600.
No, she is actually a very smart racer and runs close to even splits...
Unless I missed it, we still haven't heard how likely it is that the course was short. Also, again, maybe I missed it, but was this 65 flat or 65:59? If she is an endurance monster, I believe that she could run high 65 on a slightly short, fast course. In my opinion, if someone is as good at 10 miles as at 2, and then 12 minutes translates into 39:30 10k and, so, about 66 - 67 for 10 miles. The bottom line is, I believe it. I was a little faster in HS but I had no speed and my 2 mile 10 mile showed a similar slow-down. (10:58/58:xx at Crim, I don't remember seconds now, as a junior...And yes: cue obligatory letsrun I am a sucky runner proviso )
Definitely possible and probably means she's going to her "race well" in practice. If she wasn't to work as hard in practice for a while and saved her well water for the 3200 race, she should be running something south of 11:40. Then again, everyone is different, she just could just be a head case.
Okay, maybe she ran less than 10 miles, and maybe the pace was closer to all-out rather than tempo, but ... so what? I'd say that a "circa 10 mile run" at any pace in anywhere near 65 minutes is a really good sign for a high school girl who has a 12 minute 3200m PR. I'd use it to boost her confidence, often an issue with high schoolers, especially girls. Her true abilities at longer distances will become apparent in due course.
'He just asked if it was possible'
Well its possible the 10 miles was actually a half marathon and she just ran a world best!
I used to train with a group of long distance runners who could all go well under 34 for 10km, we would do a 10 miler every week and race the last 5 miles & we never did faster than about 65 mins and most of the group would be dropped
A junior runner typically has good track pr's but stick them even in even a 10km race and they run quite ordinary times. They just don't have the background (unless the op has had her on 100m / week for the last year)
Everyone here needs to differentiate between a race and time trial/tempo. You can time trial not far off your pr's for shorter distances but who here has come anywhere close to there 10 mile or 1/2 time in training? (and no more short course specialists trainers - I've met hundreds)
ukathleticscoach wrote:
A junior runner typically has good track pr's but stick them even in even a 10km race and they run quite ordinary times. They just don't have the background (unless the op has had her on 100m / week for the last year)
Go back and reread what the OP said: "a real work horse and runs a lot of mileage....aerobic monster". She apparently isn't your "typical" junior runner. I don't think the coach "has her" on some program, I think she does most this mileage on her own.
If she was an 'aerobic monster' she would be doing faster for 2 miles
You need to re-read what I said. The running group I mentioned were not junior track runners, they were all mature runners contrating in longer distance
If she's that good over 10 miles stick here in a race then report back what time she runs, until then its just all hot air!
It was a TRAINING run. Who cares, she's not getting a medal for it.
Like the other posters have said, sure, it's possible. Loads of people race their training runs not achieve the same time in races, probably because they race their training runs. If somehow it was actually a tempo-effort 10 mile run in 65 minutes, I'd like to see how she does in her next race. I'll bet it's faster than 12 minute 3200. Or maybe not, but I am curious. Please update when she runs a race!!!
What is her mile time?
Just for fun, let's say she is actually a 12 min. 3200 runner. Let's assume the 10 mile run was actually a tempo effort and that it was actually 10.0 miles. It THAT possible? Is there anyone out there can run a 2:50 marathon while never being able to crack 6:00 minute pace for 2 miles? It seems very unlikely.
If her 10 mile route is accurate, I'm guessing that it was not a tempo effort. If she's one to look up tables and research tempo, race, easy paces on the internet or in JD, etc., she would come to the conclusion that her tempo pace should be somewhere in the 6:30s. Not knowing any better, she probably figured that was applicable regardless of the distance.
I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that she ran 10 miles in 65:xx. My best guess is that her high mileage is killing her 1600 and 3200 times and she's just not reaching her potential there. If the 10 mile is about right, use that as a positive and help her realize she can go faster for the shorter stuff. The tricky part will be convincing her that it will actually help her to cut back on mileage. I'd also guess she pushes the pace on her easy runs. If so, the other challenge will be getting her to slow those runs down.
yes, it's possible. these sound close to my hs times. i was consistently running in the 6:35-6:55 range for 10k-1/2 marathon, and couldn't even break 20 min for my 5k. (i was the runner doing 12x 80 sec quarter mile repeats on the track with less than a minute rest, but couldn't dip below 60 sec in a race)
i'm running faster now a decade later because i'm using common sense. if you care about this runner, sit down with her and see how to put together a plan that makes sense to both of you. this will hopefully prevent her from trying to prove herself on weekends, and she can move her focus to making it happen on the track. also, encourage her to rest (e.g. take days off) and cross train- there is no need to run 10 mi at that pace in season when her times aren't coming thru. maybe throw her in a few 800s to get her speed up if she feels she's hit a wall with the 2 mi.
I think it is highly improbable, but by no means impossible. If she did that, I suspect that her 3200 PR is pretty soft, her "tempo run" was inappropriately hard (probably an all-out race effort), and she is much better at longer distances.
For whatever it's worth, I know a woman who ran a 2:51 marathon with her last 7.2k (35K to finish) at faster than her 8K pr pace. I think she's probably ready to drop some time (probably well over a minute) off her 8k pr, but she's obviously also much much stronger at longer distances.
Why wouldn't it be possible? A 12 minute 2 mile is 6 minute miles. 6 minute miles over 10 miles would be an hour. Why shouldn't she be able to run 6:30's for 10 miles? My 2 mile and half marathon splits have a difference of around 30 seconds per mile. However, a 65 minute 10 mile for a HS girl would be pretty impressive and likely doubtful, but the poster never said how old she was. And most people overestimate how far they run each workout.
Very possible and based on the description of being an aerobic moster sounds realistic - doesn't mean she should be running faster in the shorter races.
Case in point - i was a teammate of the NAIA national CC champ - this guy (like the girl described here) could outrun everyone in a longer distance race, but not in the shorter stuff. It wasn't because he didn't know how to train or race - it is how these runners are made = i.e aerobically based.
Some coaches mistakenly think they can make these runners faster in the shorter stuff by intervalling them...but here again that is based on wrong headed thinking. Your can not change the way they are made - anymore than thinking you can take a fast spinter and just have them do enough distance and - viola! they can now use their speed to beat everyone in distance races.
As a side not: I am suprised how often athletes are misidentifed in their track events: especially girls - a girl with some speed is often a true disance runner..but the coaches never figure that out and they end up being above average sprinters. i have even seen this on the college level. One day, at a D1 school (no less) I saw a girl who runs the 4X100, the 400 IH and the 4X400 doing 400 meter repeats like a distance runner (strong pace but with little rest)...and i said to myself - there is distance who happens to have enough speed that the coaches have not realized it. I never said anything because 1) it is not my job, 2) I didn't really want to interfere with the coach...when her college career was over...(after her senior conference championship) i suggested she try some middle distance races - because she was really a distance runner in my opinion. She entered a last change 800 and ran 2:11 +/- (i can;t recall the exact time). So for 4 years she had not been running CC and had been doing sprints when she could have been developing into a very solid 800/1500 meter runner (and possibly longer).
So the next time i saw another girl on this same team doing the same thing - i decided not to wait and after her Freshman season - suggested she do CC. She was varisty within that first year...
The point is - most runners are either speed based or enduance based. They are what they are. We don't really change that as coaches we simply recognize it and work within those parameters. One of the biggest mistakes i see college and post-collegiate coaches/atheletes making today is in specializing. Solinski's 10,000 is the perfect example - why wouldn't a very good 5,000 meter running be able to run a good 10,000. and why wouldn't they want to try one every now and then...and once they have run one (under 27:00) why wouldn't they be able to figure out that the label of "I'm a 5,000 guy" is rediculous. You are a distance runner. You can run both!
Webb too - can run a fast 1,500 and 5,000!
This high school girl can run the 3200 and should keep working on it, but can obviously go longer...the longer the better. But the way to improve her "speed" is not to interval her to death. Let her do her distance runs..with occassional track sessions...but don't get away from her strength (the distance work).
I coached a state champ high school girl last year (who has some speed) but is also an aerobic monster...it took me 1/2 the season to realize that she didn't really like doing track workouts, and she didn't need to do much on the track to be fast (in the 800). and even that doing speed type training in place of distance work was not going to help her get better. Distance running is all about being an aerobic animal, but our high school in particular and some college are all about intervaling and racing...not developing the aerobic animal with patience.
another good female runner prototype to look up is Ilsa Paulsen.
http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=15047
Paulson seems ideally suited for long distances, since "my legs won't go faster than 5:20 pace," she says. Indeed, her coach, Jack Daniels, says, "Ilsa's one of those rare people who actually get faster as the distance gets longer. She's gone through 3K faster in a 5K than she has in an open 3,000
So coach of this girl - i think you got one of those rare types...like Ilsa (and trust yourself in coaching her - by listening to her not the letsrun posters).
I don't think this is outside the realm of possibility, though in this case I'd guess the course was on the short side. My best all-out 5K as a teen (late 70's) was around 17:00, a 36:00 10K was a nice tempo run, and my favorite longer workout was an 8-9" acceleration run that started at 7:00 pace and ended at maximal and usually hovered around 6:00 average pace. I ran one 25K fairly easily at 7:00 pace.
Regardless, it sounds like this girl enjoys running and I hope she can do it for a long time.
Love Long Distance wrote:
an 8-9" acceleration run
Oops! I meant 8-9 MILE...
trying
with 12'00/65'00 ->
400m of 81.1s
800m of 2'48.1
1500 of 5'25.3
5000 of 19'09.0
10000 of 39'32.3
1/2M of 1"26'14
M of 2"57'42
the key is the 5k/10k ratio = 0.4843 which is far too high & superior to such as kennster, geb & even paula !
if she coud run 65'00 off 12'00, then her "endurance factor" is greater than those 3 which is virtually impossible
so, answer is
NO
you can\'t run 65\'00 off 12\'00
Is 12:00 her all out, or just the fastest she's recorded. Seems unlikely that she could if 12 was her all out. I mean, if she is an 'aerobic beast' then a 6:00 minute/mile pace really shouldn't be too hard. Maybe though.
'another good female runner prototype to look up is Ilsa Paulsen.
http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=15047
Paulson seems ideally suited for long distances, since "my legs won't go faster than 5:20 pace," she says. Indeed, her coach, Jack Daniels, says, "Ilsa's one of those rare people who actually get faster as the distance gets longer.'
Rubbish
'She's gone through 3K faster in a 5K than she has in an open 3,000'
Just because she ran a crap 3,000 doesn't mean that physically she could not do a 3km at a faster pace than her 5km pace. Every runners slows down with increased distance
Just as a 12 minute 2 miles runner does slower than 65 mins for 10m in training even if the hammer it. The simple explanation it its not 10 miles because the course has not been measured
I know you all love Daniels on here but do any East Africans follow his methods?