When, if ever, is it moral to leave your wife if you have children?

It sucks that Mr. Obvious retired.

NObama wrote:

Why don't you be a man about it work it out with your wife. Just because you're bored with her (and she's bored with you to if she told you she'd kill her self) then YOU need to step up to the plate and try to bring something fun. If you look for her to make you happy you're SOL. Be a man grab you balls talk to your woman like a man tell her what you need ask her what she wants and then find a happy medium.

He is correct that you need to work it out with your wife but what you most likely need to work out is a DIVORCE in which you act like grownups make the children understand you love them and will always be there for them. There is no obligation to stay in a loveless marriage

"When, if ever, is it moral to leave your wife if you have children?"

I would argue that the existence of your spawn is wholly irrelevant to the question of the morality of leaving your wife. Your marriage is between you and your wife, not your kids.

A marriage is an oath between two consenting adults (and the almighty GOD, if you believe in make believe). So, it is fair to change your question to "When, if ever, is it moral to break your oath to another person?" To this, I'd answer that it is never moral to break an oath. That's the reason that an oath has any real meaning behind it. If you give someone your word that you will love, care, stand by them, etc, then there is a moral imperative for you to actually follow through. Without that moral imperative, your word or oath is really nothing more than a casual statement. No, it is never moral to break an oath.

"But she's all crazy and we don't get along well and..." Tough, you should have thought about that before you committed to her. Sorry, but before you give someone your word, you better make real sure that that someone is the kind of person you won't mind following through with. Come on, you wouldn't marry someone you just met, would you?

All this is not to say that you shouldn't get divorced. I don't know you, maybe it is in your best interest to get divorced. Maybe it's in society's best interest that you abort the one in the oven so society only has to deal with one screwed up kid as a result of your doomed unholy union. Who knows? But the question of "should" is entirely different than the question of "moral". Act in your own best interest, most people do, but don't pretend like it's the moral thing to do.

If she was that bad how come you knocked her up again?

Please also let us know what films you like & what films you wife like. Lets get to the bottom of this important issue first

Your marriage is between you and your wife, not your kids.

Are you kidding with this? Of COURSE it includes the kids. It doesnt' matter if they weren't there when he made the oath or if he didn't make it to them, they are absolutely a part of it.

Act in your own best interest, most people do, but don't pretend like it's the moral thing to do.

Most people who have lived in the world have known one or more couples who children were better off as a result of them being divorced. There is nothing moral about two people who are toxic together staying together and causing all sort of stress to their children just because they made a foolish oath once

I say that you go talk to a good divorce lawyer and try to get the kids. If you cannot get custody, do not leave your wife.

Sleep in another room, take the kids OUT OF THE HOUSE on weekends to do fun things. Spend time with them. When you are around your wife, let them see that you love her. Do not fight in front of them.

IF she is actually threatening the kids, you have a slam dunk case (I would think, right?).

Do you like your job? Are there other stressors in life that are affecting your relationship?

Talk to your wife, tell her your problems.

Husband Man wrote:

IF she is actually threatening the kids, you have a slam dunk case (I would think, right?).

Don't assume this is the case. Women will get all the breaks and unless he has lots of other creditable witnesses it will probably come down to he said/she said. Judges will award to the woman.

I agree with Mrs M that you need to begin amassing evidence to prove your wife is a threat to the children (e.g., eye witness [overhear conversations in person or via cell phone], tape recording, video recording, etc.). In addition to contacting a lawyer, you should confide in a trustworthy friend, relative or acquaintance and let them know your concerns so they can speak/testify on your behalf, if necessary.

While is may not be "moral" to break and oath and divorce your wife, it certainly is not "moral" to knowingly place your children in a physically harmful or emotionally toxic environment. In my opinion, your parental responsibilities should always take precedence over your marriage. Nonetheless, you do have an obligation to ensure that your wife is provided whatever psychological assistance she needs to overcome her problems.

I am interested to know if your wife's anger problems are a recent development, or a problem she has wrestled with for many years. I ask this question because some women without a prior history of depression can succumb to this mental illness during pregnancy due to the effects of pregnancy hormones on the brain, stress, change in lifestyle (e.g., exercising restrictions, bed rest), poor or broken sleep, feelings of being overwhelmed (e.g., chasing a toddler around while pregnant), anxiety or negative feelings about the pregnancy etc. Have you tried to talk to her about how she is feeling and whether she needs help around the house?

This doesn't seem to matter much to people huh?

Do you promise to love, comfort, honor and keep [him/her] For better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health. And forsaking all others, be faithful only to [him/her] so long as you both shall live?

big oath wrote:

Most people who have lived in the world have known one or more couples who children were better off as a result of them being divorced. There is nothing moral about two people who are toxic together staying together and causing all sort of stress to their children just because they made a foolish oath once

Oh, see I've never lived in the world, so I wouldn't know.

The title of this thread asks if it is moral to leave your wife and the ensuing discussion seems centered around whether the OP should leave his wife. What you should do and what is moral are sometimes very different things. I assert that an oath only has meaning because of the moral imperative it carries with it. If you have no moral obligation to follow through on an oath, then what separates an oath from casual conversation?

You seem to be saying that it is right (in the moral sense) to break an oath if you believe that doing so is in the best interest of your offspring. I disagree. By adding arbitrary conditions to the applicability of the moral imperative of an oath, you essentially remove (or make highly variable) the only thing that makes an oath an oath.

To be clear, I really don't care if someone gets divorced. I don't care why they get divorced and I don't care if they screw up their kids for doing it (or not doing it). I'm sure many people get divorced for good reasons. I'm sure it is in the best interest of many people (and their children) to get divorced. But like I said, just because you should do something does not make it the morally right thing to do.

So you are saying it is more moral to stay in a toxic marriage which is harmful to the children than to divorce and spare them.

You see that situation doesn't change the oath at all. For better or for worse. That's worse. You just have laid down your blanket law about what is moral and what is not.

Check. Got it. Interesting morality you have there. Perhaps when you actually get out into the real world and meet some real people you'll learn something.

There is no "morally right" thing to do, since morals depend mostly on the person's own beliefs. At this point, staying in the marriage is like staying for the whole showing of "Meet the Spartans" just because you bought the ticket. It's a shitty movie, time to own up to your poor original decision (getting married when the only thing you had in common was having sex a couple of times) and walk out of the theater.

My ex and I divorced when the kids were 2 and 4. We shared custody (no "abandonment") and were better parents as a result of making the most of the times we had with the kids. We each remarried and they grew up with 2 sets of happy, stable parents so they saw what a normal relationship looks like. They don't even remember their father and I living together.

Better to COME from a broken home than LIVE in one every day

ex wrote:

...We each remarried and they grew up with 2 sets of happy, stable parents so they saw what a normal relationship looks like...

Better to COME from a broken home than LIVE in one every day

So, I guess a "normal relationship" looks like a broken marriage that has moved on? Unfortunately, that is probably the norm too often. The coming from, rather than living in, a broken home comment is, for me, a feel good comment. I am speaking from experience. I lived this scenario. What it does is provide the failed parents an excuse and a salve for failure. I will concede that not all marriages can make it because it takes two to work and adjust within the marriage. However, I tend to believe that most people, rather than do everything they can...just quit because they don't want to give in on any of their principles. They seem bent on being right rather than happy. Then we say stuff like, "well, it just didn't work out" when what is probably more accurate is "I just didn't want to work at it."

I dont know your circumstances. Maybe you did everything you could and the other person was the one who was bullheaded and would not make any effort, I dont know. But I would guess that it was just "easier" to quit than to take the more profound road and learn to love without strings. Im saying both you and your ex, not just you. And yes, I am being presumptuous, pretentious...pick your adjective.

Well Gerry Lindgren left and he's doing fine now.

Thanks for all the answers so far. I do appreciate it, and have no fear, I fully understand that this is fully my own decision to make, I was just very curious what most people thought given that I think my views on fatherhood are outside of the mainstream given that I never met my own father.

Anyway, I have a couple general comments. I fully appreciate that this situation is of my own making, no need to call me a dumbass, I get that part already, but if you are telling me you never went bareback a couple times you are lying or a virgin. I am surprised by how many people are talking about promises or oaths, there were no pretenses, we went to the courthouse and got married because she was about to have a kid in a few weeks, I don't remember any holy oaths being taken, I just think we were asked if we wanted to get married and we both said yes. Finally, although reading the posts encouraging vindictive behavior is really fun, I actually have no real ill feelings towards my wife, I just don't like the situation. I am no doctor, but I can't really be mad at her because I feel like all her crazy shit is the result of some PTSD or something from seeing her dad beat her entire family her entire life (but which is also why I take her threats seriously).

The only information we have is given by someone who stands firmly on one side of a very emotional situation. No one on this board can see what's really going on. The only thing we know for certain is that the OP has poor judgement (unintended pregnancy, pregnancy again when he's already unhappy, asking a bunch of people he doesn't know for advice).

Stir the Pot wrote:

I tend to believe that most people, rather than do everything they can...just quit because they don't want to give in on any of their principles. They seem bent on being right rather than happy. Then we say stuff like, "well, it just didn't work out" when what is probably more accurate is "I just didn't want to work at it."

I dont know your circumstances. Maybe you did everything you could and the other person was the one who was bullheaded and would not make any effort, I dont know. But I would guess that it was just "easier" to quit than to take the more profound road and learn to love without strings. Im saying both you and your ex, not just you. And yes, I am being presumptuous, pretentious...pick your adjective.

A marriage takes more than just getting along.

The OP's mistake was getting married in the first place. Did he think that was the "moral" thing to do because he got her pregnant? Now he wants to know if it's "moral" to get a divorce? That's up to him. I always thought morals were personal beliefs, much like religion, so it's pointless to argue over and worry about what other people think about your situation.

I'm not going to push my opinion on the OP, but I will share it. You are in control over what kind of father you will be. Don't assume "I think it is terrible for children to grow up without a strong male presence in their house on a DAILY basis. I do really feel strongly about this." Why do you feel that way? Are you setting an example of a "strong male presence" if you hate your life and are unhappy with your marriage? Think about the example you are setting. If I were your kids, I'd be thinking it was my fault you two were "stuck" in a bad marriage.

I think the conventional thought is that it is always best to leave in the early afternoon, around 3:00PM. This will help you to avoid evening rush hour and will allow you to beat the dinner rush for your first meal as a 'single' man. You should also definitely catch a tire as you are speeding away from the house. The tire mark you leave in the driveway is a great exclamation point to leave for the kids to remember their dear old dad. Odds are very high that you won't be single long, a man hung like yourself will have the hotties waiting in line.

Just remember to wrap that rascal to avoid a repeat of the same circumstance!!

Good luck and go git you some!!!!