Rupp's out

Get Smarter wrote:

X-Runner wrote:

You guys don't understand.

The title of the thread is "Rupp's out."

Since he qualified on time it must mean something else.

People just don't create false headlines.

Evidently you've become an ex human being as well.

Rupp happens to have a fiance.

Did no one else spot this? "Fiance" with one "e"? I don't care who you are, that's funny.

College Chick wrote:

Out of the closet

You mean "closet" as in box...as in he was boxed in but through brilliant strategy and pushing Bekele he made it out of the "closet" and into free running space. That's pretty good by you.

It seemed like Rupp ran that entire last 1K in lane to with 4 of that group of 6 spending most of it on lane 1. The only other runner that seemed to run a substantial amount in lane 2 (maybe 500-600 meters) over the last 1K was the Qatari-Kenyan and he ended up fading over the last 50 meters.

Anyone have any idea how much more distance you'd add on for running in lane 2 over the last 4 or 5 laps? I know it's risking getting boxed in on the inside but running the entire way and trying to keep up pace with guys who are closing in 2:26 is really calling for something special.

Definitely a good workout but he needs to practice running on the curb a bit more, saving even a meter or two can make the difference in making finals or getting medals. Lagat never spends excessive time off the curb on the corners. I know it's indoors and if you are the tallest guy in the field you run a higher risk of getting boxed or getting tripped and that won't get medals or make finals either, but that doesn't mean there is never an opportunity to get on the rail. It just means that once your there you have to be extra aware of getting in a tight spot.

Perspectivation wrote:

Definitely a good workout but he needs to practice running on the curb a bit more,

Wrong. It's curb running that often gets you in trouble in an indoor race. Rupp was in perfect position.

Meanwhile, close behind, Galen Rupp of the USA (8:00.90) and Qatar’s Essa Ismail Rashed (8:01.08) also progressed as fastest losers.

quoted from the official site:

http://www.doha2010wic.com/2010/03/event-report-mens-3000m-heats/

LATABOM wrote:

someonewhoreallyknows wrote:

He just got in by time.

He got lucky, he should have been in the first heat. Members of the same country are suppose to be in different first round heats.

You signed your posting as someonewhoreallyknows

Who is Ally, why did she turn to prostitution, and what does she know?

Some one whore. Ally knows.

Hahaha!

POD!

malmo wrote:

Perspectivation wrote:

Definitely a good workout but he needs to practice running on the curb a bit more,

Wrong. It's curb running that often gets you in trouble in an indoor race. Rupp was in perfect position.

Malmo, I know what your saying, and of course you're right that you can't really be trapped if your not on the curb. However, if you do run for an entire 1K in lane 2 and you're running a pace like this (2:26 for the last 1K) and the guys on the inside of you are 7:30/12:50-12:55 types you are to a certain extent swimming upstream.

I guess it's a risk either way but my point was not to lock in on the curb, but if you have a chance to take a curb on a corner or two it might be a good choice. Just be aware to get back off on the straights unless you have plenty of room to stay on it.

That's why I asked if anyone knew the difference in distance between running the last 1000 meters (5 laps in lane 1) and the last 5 laps in lane 2 while trying to maintain the same pace.

Think about racing an 800 without a stagger start, where one person uses lane one and another uses lane 2 with no cut in? If you are both 1:50 guys, the guy in lane 2 certainly won't be finishing in 1:50, even though he may have split 1:50 at the 800 meter mark which would be several meters before finish line.

Rough eyeball looks like about 1.5 to 2 meters from the start line of lane one and the start line of lane 2. Assuming that this is for a 200 meter (one lap race) than that means either 1.5 or 2 meters per lap so:

At 1.5 meters x 5 laps = 7.5 meters

At 2 meters x 5 laps = 10 meters

over the last 1000 meters. Assuming 2:26 running pace 10 meters is 1.46 seconds extra running. For 7.5 meters is 1.095 seconds extra running.

If the staggers are for 400 meters than you'd have to cut those distances in half, but that is still quite substantial difference over a thousand meters against guys like Lagat and Little Bekele.

If you ran on the inside line of lane 1 and on the inside line of lane 2 it would be 2m difference per lap. Running in the middle of lane 1 vs the inside line of lane 2 would be approx. 1m difference per lap. He was smart to stay out there and any extra energy spent running the extra 5+ meters was worth the fact that he was able to run free and not have to spend energy stressing the "closet" and other possible "situations."

Is that pronounced "fye ants" the way Holly Hunter did in "Raising Arizona"?

kipketer wrote:

Rolo Tony wrote:

I don't think he meant "push" as in "shove."

Correct. He got up in the front and pushed the pace. He looked good.

Thanks for the clarification.

The silverlight thing doesn't work on my computer.

SlowFatMaster wrote:

Is that pronounced "fye ants" the way Holly Hunter did in "Raising Arizona"?

HI! dontchu come out that house without no baby!

If I lined up against Bekele Jr. & Lagat in a 1000 meter race, I'd certainly give them a 5 second head start to stay out of the "closet" and other possible "situations". It's always better to let them run shorter and you go longer, since they are slower and all.

I mean, I can understand Kenenisa or Lagat running in lane 2 in a race against mere mortals, since they can spare the extra distance to avoid any possible situations. But when you come in as a hopeful to get into finals you might want to not run much longer than the 3000 meter race distance. There is a difference between putting yourself in a bad spot and running in lane 1 a bit. Besides, you can't always get lane 2 so it wouldn't hurt to get into lane one and practice getting out. Something that Bernard and Kene B seem to be fantasic at. Indoor worlds aint to important in comparison with outdoor worlds next summer or the olympics in 2012. Those won't be good places to learn how to get out of lane one when you need to. And running a 10K in lane 2 won't work.

malmo wrote:

Perspectivation wrote:

Definitely a good workout but he needs to practice running on the curb a bit more,

Wrong. It's curb running that often gets you in trouble in an indoor race. Rupp was in perfect position.

Thank you, Malmo, for correcting more idiotic "LR" expertise, my first thought, having competed internationally indoors, is that running close the the curve is the last thing I'd want to do indoors.

The most important thing I found about racing indoors was getting used to the changes in cadence between straights and turns -- you know it was like run, slow down for the turn, speed up run, slow down run turn, repeat etc. It actually made it hard to get bored. That, and the fact that since the laps are shorter, one needs to gauge one's moves and kicks accordingly.

Get Smarter wrote:

malmo wrote:

Wrong. It's curb running that often gets you in trouble in an indoor race. Rupp was in perfect position.

Thank you, Malmo, for correcting more idiotic "LR" expertise, my first thought, having competed internationally indoors, is that running close the the curve is the last thing I'd want to do indoors.

The most important thing I found about racing indoors was getting used to the changes in cadence between straights and turns -- you know it was like run, slow down for the turn, speed up run, slow down run turn, repeat etc. It actually made it hard to get bored. That, and the fact that since the laps are shorter, one needs to gauge one's moves and kicks accordingly.

how do you splain the 4 guys who finished (pulled away) from rupp who did run the majority of the final 1K in lane one? "idiotic"?

They are better than him at the 3k, that's how. I think all would agree that Lagat is simply better than Rupp at the 3k at this point, as are the other 3. I don't know that running out on the inside of lane 2 had much to do with it. The fact that he got a chance to run in rhythm a little bit more and didn't have to worry about getting clipped was probably worth the extra 5+ meters of running to him. It is not comparable to running an outdoor 10k with bigger lanes and less shifting.

field guy wrote:

They are better than him at the 3k, that's how. I think all would agree that Lagat is simply better than Rupp at the 3k at this point, as are the other 3. I don't know that running out on the inside of lane 2 had much to do with it. The fact that he got a chance to run in rhythm a little bit more and didn't have to worry about getting clipped was probably worth the extra 5+ meters of running to him. It is not comparable to running an outdoor 10k with bigger lanes and less shifting.

I'll agree to this, the guys who finished ahead of him ran less distance than he did over the last 1000 meters. Other than Lagat, I'm not sure the other 3 actually ran faster than Rupp over the distance. They likely ran either the same or slower, but had a shorter distance to the line. And yes I do agree that Lagat is better than Rupp 9/10 times over 3K at this point. Not necessarily the others though.

Look I get the whole staying out of trouble thing, and it's one thing to run a couple corners on the line of lane one and 2 but he ran every corner of the last 1000 meters in lane 2 and that's adding some distance to your run.

When you run on the rail you have the stress of a higher possibility of being clipped, boxed, tripped etc. However when you run in lane 2 you have the stress of trying to keep up with the pace of guys that are possibly as fast or faster than you and they are going around a shorter corner. You're pushing the pace harder to stay with their pace. On a side note we've all seen races where a runner is in lane 2 for the majority of the race to "stay out of trouble" only to be sqeezed into the curb right at the wrong time when the real kicking starts because all the guys who have been conserving on the curb behind him move out to lanes 2 and 3 to pass and before he can respond the guy who was in postion 4 in lane 2 is now in position 8 locked in on the rail and unable to respond to the big move.

There is no way to establish which one causes more stress and effort, and hell it's probably relative to whoever is put in either situation anyways since some people panic and some do not. But I think you can at least agree that there are advantages and disadvantages to both, and that most of the winners and top finishers tend NOT to be running in lane 2 the last 3rd of a race :-)

I can see your point. I think the last 1k is a bit long to be out, but for a runner that lacks a certain "burst," especially at the elite level I can understand why he stayed out. Lagat and some of the other runners have that burst, so the moment they see the opening they can get out when they want. Good argument either way though!

All else equal, the taller the runner, the more time will be best spent on the outside. Also, some runners (not necessarily Rupp, but in NCAA's he was usually well out front the last portion) have more trouble running relaxed in close confines, and optimizing relaxation is key.

Indoors maximizes "racing instinct" where many factors are affecting position and pace at any point. Rabbited outdoor races are almost a different sport.