zzzz wrote:
It may not be intuitive, but stride length is usually about the same for (non-jogger) people running the same pace. Speed is stride frequency multiplied by stride length. If you've looked at any video of a high level race, you may have noticed that stride frequency is pretty similar among most distance runners. Holding speed constant, that must mean the stride length is also about the same.
That is totally wrong.
old tymer wrote:
Tergat at the Line wrote:Heh heh. I know it's been mentioned many times before, and isn't shown in this particular video, but Tergat did have to awkwardly dart out way to the outside a bit before this video shows after being boxed in, in all likelihood causing him to loose just that much of his energy reserves to make a difference when they make those famous final strides to the line.
I've noted this several times before--but Tergat was VERY clearly & deliberately boxed by Mezegebu (the 2nd Ethiopian) and had to slow, drop back, and then dart out to lane 2 to get around. It was a very uncool move by Mezegebu and it may well have cost Tergat the race. And I say this as the world's biggest Geb fan. Watch the footage of the full last 3 laps or so.
That's part of the sport, old tymer. It's part of strategy at that level, and Tergat and the Kenyans know that very well because they have done the same thing in Olympic and Wold Champs competitions. If Tergat got boxed it was his fault. He had 25 laps to get himself in the proper position to win.
This video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkbazvD055o
(sorry for the poor quality) shows the final two laps of the race. The second-to-last lap has Tergat in good position, until about the 55 second mark in the video, when Mezegebu, the other Ethiopian, starts to make his move past Tergat and proceeds to sit there on the outside instead of tucking into the line, possibly a deliberate move to improve the odds for a victory by his countryman Haile.
It's at the 1:27 mark in this second video that Tergat makes his now-famous burst to the outside and blasts pasts everyone into the lead. Did the energy it took Tergat to do that cost him in the end?
Thanks for the link. I couldn't help but notice though that Tergat had 20-30 seconds with Mezegebu approaching his side before his window closed. Had Tergat watched out for this, it could have been avoided. In the end, it's still peanuts and we can look at peanuts all day till the cows come home. The benefit of the doubt must go to the victor.
lanerellis wrote:
This video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkbazvD055o(sorry for the poor quality) shows the final two laps of the race. The second-to-last lap has Tergat in good position, until about the 55 second mark in the video, when Mezegebu, the other Ethiopian, starts to make his move past Tergat and proceeds to sit there on the outside instead of tucking into the line, possibly a deliberate move to improve the odds for a victory by his countryman Haile.
It's at the 1:27 mark in this second video that Tergat makes his now-famous burst to the outside and blasts pasts everyone into the lead. Did the energy it took Tergat to do that cost him in the end?
If it did, it's his fault for putting himself in that position. Strategy is a major part of winning. Tergat made a mistake, let himself get boxed in and it cost him.
Tergat at the Line wrote:
Sweet video, thanks. I always felt bad for Tergat in this one. How could he have run differently to beat Haile?
The 1-2-3 method for beating Haile Gebreselassie:
1. Sneak into his hotel room the night before.
2. Locate Haile's bed and move towards it.
3. Roll Haile over onto his back.
Wow, what a great video! It really makes me detest the short shuffle of mine that passes for a stride these days.
the reality of it wrote:
Tergat at the Line wrote:Sweet video, thanks. I always felt bad for Tergat in this one. How could he have run differently to beat Haile?
The 1-2-3 method for beating Haile Gebreselassie:
1. Sneak into his hotel room the night before.
2. Locate Haile's bed and move towards it.
3. Roll Haile over onto his back.
Why would that help? I know why your saying it but he WON even though he had a sore back...so you're wrong.
Thanks for the video and the various analysis. Notice when and where each stride is placed. Tergat's foot is planting a few inches in front of his knee, a classic overstride, and the curse of most distance runners when sprinting tired. Geb's foot claws back and plants directly beneath his knee providing momentum. He also keeps his foot dorsi-flexed and brings his heel to his butt making the lever much shorter and quicker. When Tergat starts to lean, he doesn't shorten his stride, but rather lengthen it. Notice how his foot is planting much ahead of his knee at that point causing a breaking motion. Overstriding is the curse of a distance runner even when it is a matter of inches when you are talking about such a high level. At this point, it is "usually" best form wins!
Really, HG had beaten Tergat in a similar manner many times. It just came down to the fact he said "uncle" last. He just wanted it a bit more. A true champion.
You all speak of the leg motion and footstrike but look at HG's upper body.... the transfer of the energy of that armswing into a forward motion... efficient yet strong... and damn, my roommates to either side are both getting some tonight... but luckly for me i've got all you here to keep me company.
cool. always wanted to see a better version of this race. i'm saving this one.
just the facts wrote:
, a classic overstride, and the curse of most distance runners
one of the all time best distance race kickers and you question his form?
Your eye is not good enough to "judge" form. Too many contributors to motion.
by the time Tergat leans he is done, out of gas. It wasn't the form that beat him, it was the all-time best kicker(at that time) that beat him.
mplatt wrote:
one of the all time best distance race kickers and you question his form?
Your eye is not good enough to "judge" form. Too many contributors to motion.
by the time Tergat leans he is done, out of gas. It wasn't the form that beat him, it was the all-time best kicker(at that time) that beat him.
I disagree.
Tergat is 'one of' the best kickers, but not the best. Why not? I can judge his form when in a fatigued state from watching video. His was the first form to break, thus, he lost. I feel I can reverse your statement above to "by the time Tergat was out of gas (breakdown of form), he leans. If he wasn't overstriding, maybe, and that's a big maybe, he holds it together 5-10 more meters.
At that level the difference between great and the greatest is infinitely small. Why wouldn't the ability to hold form be a contributer? It happens at all levels, but magnified when seen in two of the greatest ever who were so similar in all other aspects of racing on that day.
dude. the best kicker is referring to Haile not to Tergat. Up until Bekele Haile was the best ever 10k runner for killing people in the last lap/100m.
nice try though.
Nevermind the name. This post is awesome. Well done. I love geb but this made me laugh my but off.
This might very well be the most idiotic thread in Letsrun history. If not, it's a dead heat the "starting on the wrong foot" thread.
whoosh wrote:
dude. the best kicker is referring to Haile not to Tergat.
Ya think? There are many reasons HG is the best and holding form at kicking time is one of them.
Let's both take equal Ferrari's and race. However, yours will go out of alignment on the last lap. Who has the advantage? Of course this is all splitting hairs, but do you think there was a wide margin of difference between HG & PT on the day of the original video?
Neat to be able to actually see that footage slowed down like that. You can see so much more in this video. Thanks for posting it.
If it had been just Haile and Tergat together for the last lap, with Haile out front, I think Tergat's move would have been successful and he would have beaten Haile.
Excellent. Love the music too.