Dave Smith is getting too fancy

bronco wrote:

Just looking at Lowe, Fernandez and Vail: they have all improved under Smith -- is this because he doesn't know how to coach?

That's right, you tell them how it is! Watch the Smith strategy in action again at the finals exactly like it worked a year ago!

Not an OSU fan, I'll say that right away. But, I will also say that bashing Smith for this is ridiculous. As far as strategy goes it was the best possible strategy. All of his guys know how to race, they have all proven it. So there is no need to go out and race for the sake of racing. Today they did a work out that will further help them prepare for nats, allowing them to take less time to recover than they would have if it had been a race, and thus continue to prepare, focused solely on the only race that counts. On top of that, they won today, with a tempo effort. Why would you race all out in a non-championship race if you can win and you have another big race in 9 days?

All that being said, it really is not enjoyable to watch. Id rather see them race all out, but we will get to see that soon enough I suppose. I don't see anyone touching Stanford, OSU included(plus Stan. showed today they can roll in cold and soft conditions, the only real question concerning that team, IMO). OSU is going to have to look out for CU and Syracuse, Wisconsin and a few others that might try to sneak in. OSU should have four guys that are fine, but I could easily see one of their guys having an off day and blowing things up. All that said, "racing" today would by no means have helped their chances for Monday week.

1. Stanford

2. OSU

3. Wisconsin

4. CU

5. Oregon

6. Syracuse

7. NAU

8. Portland

9. William Marry

10. Virginia

not a big deal wrote:

I am absolutely certain no one is saying they should run 26 minutes today for a 10k.

Indeed. Smith has trained them to run 31:05.

Are you an idiot? And "rest all the time and do sprints is training for a mile? Are you new to this sport?

No, because I know that this is cross country season. Since you don't, you are the idiot.

27 flat 10k guys? Are you looking at the same team as everyone else? And it was on a cross country course.

You must be on the team, since Smith has you well prepared with excuses.

Not as old ndn runner wrote:

You're arguing that Coach Smith should have pushed his team to race harder at regionals, irregardless of whether it makes more sense for his guys to be at their peak at nationals? Because its good for race viewers? Looking at the results, Oklahoma State just dominated this regional race, winning by a considerable margin. Although I wasn't able to watch the race, I can't believe that it wasn't amazing to watch six guys from the same team come across the line together at the front of the pack. You're missing the beauty of this race.

Actually, no. I was not arguing that Coach Smith should have...

What I said was that the previous poster had a good point. We xc afficionados can well appreciate seeing seven guys from one team come across at essentially the same time and gain the team win in the process.

However, that was really not the topic that I was addressing. I think that the previous poster raised a good point in what is good for the sport. The way NCAA xc is structured, there is essentially one race that 'counts' for the elite teams. Everything else can be run as a workout by those with sufficient firepower (OSU, Stanford...). It seems like this makes the sport a very tough sell to the general public. XC nuts (and I consider myself one) may well appreciate the MW region 'race' but can we ever really expect to be taken seriously by the larger public or the media or ... if the best teams don't even 'race' most of their races?

Anyway, this is not a criticism of Smith or of OSU. Just a thought about whether or not there is any real hope of making XC more popular (which would ultimately lead to more money, more serious participants and more success for US distance running on the world scene). Seems like the nature of the game right now says the answer is 'no'. And that's a shame.

I hope I am wrong, but what could bite OSU at Nationals is they have not raced much this year. There is a big difference between knowing how to race and being prepared to race. I think Stanford is ready to race. NCs always goes out hard and Stanford will be ready for that and be up front. OSU will go out slow and try to move up because they haven't raced enough to go out in 4:20 and hold on. They will employ the same strategy as last year but I don't think Stanford is going to come back.

With that said, today wasn't the day to race if you didn't have to. The racing should have been other races including their conference meet.

I wish luck to both teams!

From The Stands wrote:

OSU will go out slow and try to move up because they haven't raced enough to go out in 4:20 and hold on.

Mr. Lananna -

Holding on after coming through the mile in 4:20 has nothing to do with racing enough, it has to do with fitness. But by all means, send your guys (including #s 5-7 that have no chance of being in the top 30) ripping out two Mondays from now.

german ftw wrote:

sdafsdf wrote:

I was about to post this as well. Thank you.

Actually it is a word. A non-standard English word. It's okay to use it...

if you want to sound like an uneducated person.

Actually, as a highly educated person, I would like to point out that 'irregardless' is a word. It is even in the OED, though its usage is highly disputed - thread is case in point.

[quote]From The Stands wrote:

OSU will go out slow and try to move up because they haven't raced enough to go out in 4:20 and hold on. They will employ the same strategy as last year but I don't think Stanford is going to come back.

If you listened to what the coach you guys are bashing stated after the Cowboy Jamborre that is not the plan. Go find the interview and then post some facts. Jut a little of what he said, going out slow is good for a 10th rank team to get 3rd but not good for a top ranked team. I believe he has learned from his mistakes and his runners will prove all you nay sayers wrong.

oldoldrunner wrote:

If you listened to what the coach you guys are bashing stated after the Cowboy Jamborre that is not the plan. Go find the interview and then post some facts. Jut a little of what he said, going out slow is good for a 10th rank team to get 3rd but not good for a top ranked team. I believe he has learned from his mistakes and his runners will prove all you nay sayers wrong.

That's why they all ran 31:05 this weekend.

;aksljdfa;slkdas;lkfdjasf wrote:

[quote]Not as old ndn runner wrote:

irregardless

NOT A WORD.

Irrelevant?

this is a very smart coaching move by smith. Just like bowerman, smith knows what a ten k in cross country can do to the legs. Its not like an 800! too much racing in xc is very detrimental to the overall development of runners. You guys act like its easy to get up for big xc races, well it isnt. It takes a lot of mental and physical investment. Coach smith knows what he's doing and it will show when his runners win nationals with "clear eyes and full hearts".

XC races are hard! that is why you dont race every weekend guts out. if you do you'll be fried(mentally and physically) when championship season starts. He is keeping his boys hungry. You guys are typical americans. RACE,RACE, RACE. Its all you think about and that is why you suck

The poster tacitly confused "regardless" and "irrespective," but maybe my post is irrelevant. But on he substantive point of the thread, perhaps Smith is to be criticized if his runners did not run very hard earlier in the year, but to run a hard 10,000 XC nine days out from Nationals, that does not seem as if it would be the best strategy. Moreover, by running 31s, my guess is that his team was able to train straight through.

word smyth wrote:

;aksljdfa;slkdas;lkfdjasf wrote:

[quote]Not as old ndn runner wrote:

irregardless

NOT A WORD.

Irrelevant?

It's funny how so many of you are bashing OSU's strategy, yet no one is saying anything about Byrnes and Wisconsin. Do you realize that they won't even be racing the same team at Nationals that ran at Regionals? And how many all-out efforts have they had this season? Two hard 10k's in 9 days is not smart. If you don't agree, then you've never run a hard 10k.

To bash the strategy of packing it up at regionals is absolutely ridiculous. The only way you could bash their regional performance is if they failed to advance. As long as they advance, regionals is just a training session they are free to use as they see appropriate.

sad coach lazy team wrote:

not a big deal wrote:

I am absolutely certain no one is saying they should run 26 minutes today for a 10k.

Indeed. Smith has trained them to run 31:05.

Are you an idiot? And "rest all the time and do sprints is training for a mile? Are you new to this sport?

No, because I know that this is cross country season. Since you don't, you are the idiot.

27 flat 10k guys? Are you looking at the same team as everyone else? And it was on a cross country course.

You must be on the team, since Smith has you well prepared with excuses.

You simply prove your idiocy farther, troll.

Whats said is Dave has gone to the dark side doing things that are in the grey

he has to get it done with foreigners and a 6th year senior

When you do things like that people are bound to hope for your downfall especially since he is kinda arrogant

oldoldrunner wrote:

I stated back in September DC would bethe key to them winning NCCA's. He was their 1st runner today, yes they let him be 1st, but that will built his confidence. There was a 4 second spread between OSU 1-7.I think OSU 4-7 runners will out performs Stanfords 4-7 runners and that will be the key to wins in 9 days. Any of those 4 for either team can be the teams 4th man or 7th man. Their performace will determine who wins.

Yes, you did. And I said at the time that DC was simply not relevant to the Cowboys' title hopes. He is simply not good enough to score for a winning (1st place) team at nationals (his performance of two full years ago notwithstanding).

OSU will sink or swim with GF, RV, JK, CL and GM. If all five show up fit and ready to rumble then they have a shot at beating Stanford (and even an outside shot at winning big). If not, then it's Stanford all the way - DC and others just cannot keep up at that level.

I know you don't agree. We'll see in ten days.

sad coach lazy team wrote:

No one is saying they should have run 26 minutes today for a 10k.

WRONG. I am saying that they should have run 26.

The thing that confuses me about Dave Smith is how inconsistent he is with his strategy. He is so conservative in cross-country, then back in indoor track he raced German almost every weekend and doubled him at conference when they had no chance of winning.