Look at the new map MSSU provided and look at the grass its on the same darned path
Look at the new map MSSU provided and look at the grass its on the same darned path
okay so that guy just proved it was 4.96, okay so add 3 seconds to everyones time. more importantly however, harding is beyond beatable, they should slip drastically in the rankings
JayKo wrote:
My 305 definitely got 4.96 so a little short but nothing extreme....
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5318/mssu.jpg
Agreed! My 405 came up with 4.97. I think that equates to about 50 meters. I think times were fast because there was tremendous competition and an absolutely perfect day.
wewewewe wrote:
okay so that guy just proved it was 4.96, okay so add 3 seconds to everyones time. more importantly however, harding is beyond beatable, they should slip drastically in the rankings
I agree, the course is just a fast course. That and the weather and race was pretty much perfect imo.
You can keep telling yourself that course is the right distance but it isn't. I am sorry, you didn't actually PR by a minute. I tried mapping it here and even did a liberal job on the corners and still came up at 4.9 as a previous poster stated.
I even put the finish line a lot further than it actually is to make up for any mistakes and I still was very short.
dude, you probably werent even there, and if you were, you probably ran a 27:xx like you are supposed to, stop being jealous and knocking down everyone elses times because you cant run that fast.
No, I was there as a coach.
wewewewe wrote:
okay so that guy just proved it was 4.96, okay so add 3 seconds to everyones time. more importantly however, harding is beyond beatable, they should slip drastically in the rankings
This was the first year for MSSU to run the new course and it was short. From what we measured most of the "shortness" was in the first mile (iow, the first mile was marked way before the actual first mile on the course) and the rest was spread out pretty evenly per mile. If you don't want to say the course was short because you PR'd here or because as this brilliant poster above stated the fast times will boost their team ranking...fine...hell I claim my 8k PR on a course that was 220m short all the runners that I know when they ask where it was set know the thing was short. Same way here, anyone with any sense, rankers included, are going to see that the course was short.
Thing is guys, its pretty obvious that you are not going to have that many guys, who are decent and have been training for years, come out this early in the season, and all PR by drastic amounts (as an earlier poster indicated). Just not going to happen. The course was 4.91 according to the wheel, which is actually a lot more accurate than your standard GPS watches and laughably more accurate than trying to measure it with mapmyrun and such.
As for you folks that think the course must be accurate because the Missouri Southern Map said it was 8k, or because some guy came on and posted a GPS sheet that said 4.96....well, Ive got some mountain view property in central Kansas that you might be interested in.
These GPS readings are garbage. The more turns, the worse they are. Take it to the track and see for yourself. And the faster you swing your arms the more distance you get... Just try it.
Measure the course with a f-ing wheel, shortest path possible.
Its not that difficult.
Have your Grad assistant do it. Thats what they are paid for.
MSSUParticipant wrote:
This was the first year for MSSU to run the new course and it was short. From what we measured most of the "shortness" was in the first mile (iow, the first mile was marked way before the actual first mile on the course) and the rest was spread out pretty evenly per mile. If you don't want to say the course was short because you PR'd here or because as this brilliant poster above stated the fast times will boost their team ranking...fine...hell I claim my 8k PR on a course that was 220m short all the runners that I know when they ask where it was set know the thing was short. Same way here, anyone with any sense, rankers included, are going to see that the course was short.
Thing is guys, its pretty obvious that you are not going to have that many guys, who are decent and have been training for years, come out this early in the season, and all PR by drastic amounts (as an earlier poster indicated). Just not going to happen. The course was 4.91 according to the wheel, which is actually a lot more accurate than your standard GPS watches and laughably more accurate than trying to measure it with mapmyrun and such.
As for you folks that think the course must be accurate because the Missouri Southern Map said it was 8k, or because some guy came on and posted a GPS sheet that said 4.96....well, Ive got some mountain view property in central Kansas that you might be interested in.
Exactly.
Sorry, but NO WAY! I am not saying the course was not short, because I believe it was by 50-100 meters, but the first mile was not far off it at all. The splits there were fine. Yes they moved the mile mark up about 80 meters, but they also extended the route by about 80 meters so it was basically a wash.
To those that ran PRs, I would bet that even you prorated your pace for an additional 200 meters, it would still be a PR. If you ran a 60 sec PR then you easily still ran a 25-35 second PR if the course was 200 meters short. Which it was not.
Bottom line, forget time. Where did you place? How did your placing compare to your normal opponents placing? Let's not forget that cross country is about place and not time. Keep it all in perspective.
heres results from last week's mule run. It was 4 Miles.
Many of the same teams.
With this sort of Improvement I can't wait to see what they run next week
http://ucmo.edu/athletics/xc/0910news_results/2009_mule_result_men.htm
Mule Run - 9/11/2009
University of Central Missouri
Pertle Springs, Warrensburg, MO
Last Completed Event
Event 4 Men 4 Mile Run CC
=======================================================================
Name Year School Finals Points
=======================================================================
1 Sialo, Laban Central Missouri 19:58.30 1
2 Grundman, Neil Graceland 19:59.34 2
3 Pierce, Michael Southwest Baptist 20:05.60 3
4 Glassmaker, Jeremy Southwest Baptist 20:24.04 4
5 Testa, Tim Pittsburg State 20:28.11 5
6 Etzenhouser, Shawn Southwest Baptist 20:28.31 6
7 Hassaballa, MJ Pittsburg State 20:28.33 7
8 Carter, Brett Central Missouri 20:30.75 8
9 Jarvenpaa, Jarkko Missouri Southern 20:30.82 9
10 Moberly, Dalton Central Missouri 20:41.03 10
11 Schulz, Josh Central Missouri 20:44.70 11
12 Denny, Kevin Central Missouri 20:48.78 12
13 Hernandez, Mike Central Methodist 20:55.44 13
14 Khalif, Ahmed Graceland 20:59.72 14
15 Volkert, Adam Pittsburg State 21:05.68 15
16 Schulz, Anthony Mule Track Club 21:08.66 16
17 Sanell, Jon Pittsburg State 21:11.34 17
18 Miller, Phillip Southwest Baptist 21:11.68 18
19 McClure, Kyle Central Missouri 21:17.29 19
20 McCampbell, Michael Southwest Baptist 21:17.73 20
21 Hansen, Will Southwest Baptist 21:18.61 21
22 Trapp, Andrew Mule Track Club 21:18.84 22
23 Haffner, Matt Pittsburg State 21:19.00 23
24 Stuber, Tyler Central Missouri 21:26.63 24
25 bender, steve Missouri Baptist 21:28.82 25
26 Fuchs, David Mule Track Club 21:30.20 26
27 Mundt, Joe Mule Track Club 21:30.57 27
28 Keown, Ben Central Missouri 21:32.54
29 Nummela, Aki Missouri Southern 21:37.38 28
30 Jochems, Brad Pittsburg State 21:41.36 29
31 Taylor, Jack Central Missouri 21:42.54
32 VanGundy, John Pittsburg State 21:43.63 30
33 kibii, kenny Missouri Baptist 21:46.18 31
34 Ayers, Cameron Southwest Baptist 21:47.39 32
35 Ward, James Pittsburg State 21:48.36
36 Pogue, Sam Missouri Southern 21:49.84 33
37 Knight, Lance Southwest Baptist 21:51.02
38 Sawe, Josphat Central Methodist 21:52.23 34
39 Anliker, Tyler Pittsburg State 21:52.52
40 Mendell, Derek Missouri Southern 21:53.62 35
41 Loats, Ben Pittsburg State 21:56.72
42 Kiprono, Anthony Central Methodist 21:56.78 36
43 Rogers, Nathaniel Southwest Baptist 21:59.65
44 Scheideman, Chris Unattached 21:59.76
45 Jarman, Bryson Central Missouri 22:00.98
46 Aurthur, Ryan Unattached 22:01.28
47 Polshak, Tyler Pittsburg State 22:02.95
No one is saying that people didn't run well or that it wasn't a good race, they are only saying that the course was short, which it was.
Cedmar wrote:
33 guys under 25 minutes? Nope. I'd guess its at least 30-45 seconds fast/200-250 meters short.
You act like breaking 25 minutes for an 8k is some impossible feat. Haha
I am thinking this must have been a 4 miler since there were a lot of D2 guys in it.
rankings dont have anything to do with times smart guy. i was saying that harding got beat, by a lot. i didnt say anything about their times being slow
Wow. The joplin courses are always flat and fast compared to most other xc courses... and then obviously short on top of that this time around. Those times aren't even close to a legit xc 8k. Add a minute... at least.
And for all of those with gps and garmins... those are usually generous. So if those are even saying it's short then it must be even shorter.
As another said, focus on your place because the times are completely meaningless. And when your times at other courses are more than a minute slower then you will understand how far off this one must be.
Anyone can run a "pr" on a course that is flat, fast, AND short.
course wasnt flat... and add a minute? hardly man more like 10-25 seconds
