How can a guy go from running 3.47 as a 17 year old then run 3.45 as a chronically injured and lazy 19-20 year old before getting his shit together and running a 3.41?
How can a guy go from running 3.47 as a 17 year old then run 3.45 as a chronically injured and lazy 19-20 year old before getting his shit together and running a 3.41?
You meant:
19.75 => 1267 points => 3:45.00 mile
9.58 => 1374 points => 3:37.14 mile
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If Bolt is genuinely as supernaturally gifted as you believe, he would welcome, and even seek out, the most rigorous scientific documentation of his otherworldly gifts.
Maybe he will have to give blood samples at different times throughout the year to be frozen and stored so they can be tested in the future. Who's in charge of that again?
Maybe he will have to give blood samples at different times throughout the year to be frozen and stored so they can be tested in the future. Who's in charge of that again?
The multiple prestigious research institutions (biophysics and biochemistry labs at Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Caltech, etc.) that would be plumbing the cellular and sub-cellular depths of Bolt's superhuman, hyper-freaky ability.
OK, intelligently... no, he's not doping. Why is that my intelligent opinion? Because he gets tested all the time, has never evaded a test (to my knowledge) and he has tested negative every time. Intelligent reasoning relies on evidence and data. Unintelligent reasoning relies on hunches, unsubstantiated rumor, and religious faith.
The guy is dirty. The entire world knows this. Believing he is clean is like believing in the miracles at Lourdes. We want them to be true, but we know they ain't.
Out.
I think that if Bolt were doping, he would have to be taking something that neither the scientific community nor the rest of the running world even knows about. Some mad scientist would have had to develop some incredibly advanced drug that could not be detected and would enhance performance by like 30% and then would have gone to Jamaica, picked some random cricket playing teenager and given him the drug. And after all of that he would collect no profits from said drug that would likely have cost billions of dollars to produce.
ilgore wrote:
The guy is dirty. The entire world knows this. Believing he is clean is like believing in the miracles at Lourdes. We want them to be true, but we know they ain't.
Out.
Case in point. Not intelligent. But then, this is letsrun.
Scientific Inquiry wrote:
You meant:
19.75 => 1267 points => 3:45.00 mile
9.58 => 1374 points => 3:37.14 mile
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If Bolt is genuinely as supernaturally gifted as you believe, he would welcome, and even seek out, the most rigorous scientific documentation of his otherworldly gifts.
Don't you mean:
19.75 => 1267 points => 3:45.00 mile
19.19 => 1356 points => 3:38:44 mile
Mr Scientist!!
I drank some of Bolt's piss and set a 5K PR over the weekend. This proves he is dirty.
Out.
Scientific Inquiry wrote:
A truism:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary EVIDENCE.
The extraordinary claim: a PED-free man runs 100 meters in 9.58 seconds and 200 meters in 19.19 seconds, obliterating his (already shocking) world records in events with documented histories of drug use among its previous world record holders and world champions.
The alternative claim is also quite extraordinary.
The extraordinary claim: an undetectable drug is developed and is provided to a young Jamaican - quite possibly before 2002, when he became the youngest-ever world junior gold medallist at 15 years old. Not only is this drug undetected, but despite the monetary incentive, no other male sprinter gets access to this drug and the young Jamaican goes on to run 100m in 9.58 seconds and 200m in 19.19 seconds.
To me the idea that he is PED free doesn't make the fact that he ran 9.58 any more extraordinary then it already is. Maybe because I don't start from the assumption that sub 9.9 = drugs.
~~~~~~~~ wrote:
Scientific Inquiry wrote:A truism:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary EVIDENCE.
The extraordinary claim: a PED-free man runs 100 meters in 9.58 seconds and 200 meters in 19.19 seconds, obliterating his (already shocking) world records in events with documented histories of drug use among its previous world record holders and world champions.
The alternative claim is also quite extraordinary.
The extraordinary claim: an undetectable drug is developed and is provided to a young Jamaican - quite possibly before 2002, when he became the youngest-ever world junior gold medallist at 15 years old. Not only is this drug undetected, but despite the monetary incentive, no other male sprinter gets access to this drug and the young Jamaican goes on to run 100m in 9.58 seconds and 200m in 19.19 seconds.
That would be AN extraordinary alternative claim (not "the" alternative extraordinary claim, whatever that is supposed to mean), and of course, the same standard of evidence would apply. Another (unextraordinary) alternative claim would be that Bolt uses plain old garden variety PEDs that are not detectable, and/or cycles on and off and masks detectable PEDs in a rational fashion, like so many sprinters (and others) have before.
Absence of of evidence is not evidence of absence.
I take it that you are a supporter of the proposition that Bolt is clean - if so, then you should have no qualms at all about him undergoing the most rigorous scientific investigation possible.
Scientific Inquiry wrote:
Absence of of evidence is not evidence of absence.
The burden of evidence is not on the "absence" claim. Had he run 8.59, maybe. But the man improved a WR by one lousy tenth of a second, which can easily be explained by his physiological advantage over his competitors.
SARMS SARMS SARMS SARMS
i feel sorry for you people...you are clearly poor cynical hacks who will never be able to appreciate the beauty of the performances that athletes like phelps, bolt, mj, et al put on because you cannot except the fact that certain people have the tenacity, or the genetic gifts, or a combination of both and have used them to become exceptionally good at their respective sports. i consider a previlage to have been able to watch these athletes perform at their prime
The burden of evidence is not on the "absence" claim. Had he run 8.59, maybe. But the man improved a WR by one lousy tenth of a second, which can easily be explained by his physiological advantage over his competitors.
Given the history of world-class sprinting and drug use, and the magnitude of Bolt's claim, the "burden of evidence" is most assuredly on Bolt. The claim to run 9.58 and 19.19 completely clean is truly extraordinary. The evidence of said "cleanliness" is mediocre at best.
If obliterating world records in the most drug-historied (and lucrative) event in track "can be easily explained by his physiological advantage", then the prestigious research laboratories investigating his otherworldly speed will establish just what his "physiological advantage" is via the scientific method (I hope you are not simply referring to his height - see Francis Obikwelu). As a supporter of the "Bolt is clean" proposition, which I presume you are, you should embrace the validation such inquiry would provide, not to mention its valuable insights into human biophysics and biochemistry.
forest wrote:
i feel sorry for you people...you are clearly poor cynical hacks who will never be able to appreciate the beauty of the performances that athletes like phelps, bolt, mj, et al put on because you cannot except the fact that certain people have the tenacity, or the genetic gifts, or a combination of both and have used them to become exceptionally good at their respective sports. i consider a previlage to have been able to watch these athletes perform at their prime
You have nothing to fear from cold, dispassionate, peer-reviewed, scientific inquiry. Or do you?
All the people out there who want to run thousands of tests of Bolt with many, many labs don't really understand the scientific process. If they run 1000 tests and he test positive once you would say "I KNEW IT, DAMN DIRTY CHEATER!!" When in reality that one positive test would be at odds with the rest and suggest a false positive.
I suggest you guys study Bayesian statistics.
Not detectable, has the same effect as steroids, without the side effects.
Bolt is clearly talented, but talented and on drugs.
Think about high school physics and levers. Bolt is a huge guy relative to everything, it takes incredible power to get those long legs moving that fast in 100m.