Wheating didn't run a 26 off a 3:38 race. He ran a 26 off a 3:41/3:42 race and ran 3:38. There is a major difference there. The same goes from the Wisconsin guys running a 53 last lap. They ran a 53 off a 13:30 type effort not a 13:20 effort.
Wheating didn't run a 26 off a 3:38 race. He ran a 26 off a 3:41/3:42 race and ran 3:38. There is a major difference there. The same goes from the Wisconsin guys running a 53 last lap. They ran a 53 off a 13:30 type effort not a 13:20 effort.
trialswatcher wrote:
A guy like Manzano for instance owned the event in NC's for two years from front or in back, and has rarely been outkicked, as an example. And has the 3:34 already run, not too shabby.
Where did Manzano have a 2 year stint like this?
Won outdoor 1500 as a frosh. As a soph beaten indoor and outdoors (Smith and Rono). Junior year won the indoor mile, got outkicked by Lomong outdoors, then his senior year he was truly dominant in the 1500/mile. That's one year he owned the event.
For NCAA rules, aren't meets allowed to cover the cost of traveling to/from the meet?
Is Cell running that meet?
trialswatcher wrote:
and to "been there done that", he hardly looked comfortable leaning hard and then injured to win NC's at 1:46.21 a time 1.16 slower than his best from a year prior.
Like I said before, he looked great winning comfortably in his SEMI at NCAA's in 1:46:
Flash Results, Inc.
NCAA Division I 2009 Outdoor
Track & Field Championships
Fayetteville, AR - 6/10/2009 to 6/13/2009
Event 4 Men 800 Meter Run
================================================================
4 Heats. Advance top 3 from each heat plus next best 6 to semi.
Advance top 3 from each semi plus next best 3 times to final.
American: 1:42.60 8/28/1985 Johnny Gray, Santa Monica T
College Best: 1:41.77 8/26/1984 Joaquim Cruz, Oregon
NCAA Meet: 1:44.70 6/1/1990 Mark Everett, Florida
Name Year School Semis
================================================================
Heat 1 Semi-Finals
1 Andrew Wheating JR Oregon 1:46.21Q
2 Ryan Foster SO Penn State 1:46.78Q
3 Sean Tully SR Villanova 1:46.84Q
4 Irek Sekretarski SR Southern California 1:47.11q
5 Richard Jones SO LSU 1:47.27q
6 Jason Collett SR Kansas State 1:47.39q
7 Carlos Phillips SR Florida 1:47.48
8 Lance Roller FR Virginia 1:48.31
-- Zach Beth SO Wisconsin DQ Rule 5.2.b
Heat 2 Semi-Finals
1 Tevan Everett SR Texas 1:46.97Q
2 Tyler Mulder SR Northern Iowa 1:47.17Q
3 Chris Gowell JR Baylor 1:47.32Q
4 Donte Holmes SO Delaware State 1:47.61
5 Dominic Tanui SR Texas-El Paso 1:47.91
6 Cory Primm SO UCLA 1:47.95
7 Adam Hairston JR Iowa 1:49.12
8 Alex McClary SR Arkansas 1:49.72
9 Robert Novak SR Seton Hall 1:53.52
In the final he was running sick and lame and still came up with 1:46 and that is pretty damn amazing. But you're right he didn't look comfortable.
Again, regarding the times this year he only runs to win so he doesn't dictate paces. So far he's never been in a 1500/mile that he couldn't handle as far as pace so it will be interesting to see him race in London. I expect he'll feel like he's in another world coming through 1200 5 seconds faster than he ever has before.
I am pretty sure any post season marks (summer) will not count. Ryun ran 3:51.3 the summer of his fresman season as well as the 3:51.1 the summer of his soph. season, neither counted. If that is the case, the door is shut for this year.
how late into the summer is he gonna race?
i'd really like to see him take a summer off from racing and give xc an honest effort (ie do legit summer training for the 10k instead of racing 8s)
different op. wrote:
Wheating didn't run a 26 off a 3:38 race. He ran a 26 off a 3:41/3:42 race and ran 3:38. There is a major difference there. The same goes from the Wisconsin guys running a 53 last lap. They ran a 53 off a 13:30 type effort not a 13:20 effort.
So I take it Bekele's 53 only came in a 1315 type effort last week then?
I'd rather see the Mercado's get their s together and step up.
And have Wheating train for an 800/1500 double at NCAA's
h h h h wrote:
I'd rather see the Mercado's get their s together and step up.
And have Wheating train for an 800/1500 double at NCAA's
that's really not a possible double, unless the schedule changes, which is unlikely because they want both of those races within the small window of live tv coverage on the final day
i wonder if anyone has ever doubled 8/5k...
5k in london was wheating's goal before he discovered the 8... you never know...
trialswatcher wrote:
Zat and I have discussed Wheating before, however, the facts are, he has not run faster, and to "been there done that", he hardly looked comfortable leaning hard and then injured to win NC's at 1:46.21 a time 1.16 slower than his best from a year prior.
I also think he has all the gifts, but he does leave himself back a lot, and you only get National Class guys that way, if at all.After a bit, you only get so much credit for the big bang capablities, but not moving forward time wise.
Talent? Huge. However, this sport waits for no one especially now, and he did not run faster yet this year, if he was Webb, he would be getting trashed on here by now.I alos thought he might be next 1:44 guy moving forward and a 3:36 by now, he certainly has the gift.
This is a joke. The guy goes through an injury-shortened season, wins his first NCAA title and gets knocked because he didn't PR in a shortened season? Gimme a break. (1) Improvement is never linear and (2) his season isn't even over yet!
As far as "leaving himself back", I agree but that's what I was talking with the Lamborghini analogy. He made an Oly team and ran 3:38 doing that (IN HIS SECOND FREAKIN' YEAR OF SERIOUS RUNNING!); that's the "timidly trying not to grind the gears" part of the analogy.
The fact they are taking him to Europe tells me they think he has more in him time-wise than he's shown this year and that he's ready to stretch out and test things a little more. Good.
I continue maintain that we've not seen a talent like this since Ryun. Give the boy some time. He's surround by good people who know how to teach him how to get the most out of that Lamborghini. Give him some time to take some driving lessons.
Zat0pek,
Again, couldn't agree more.
At about 2:30-2:45 into the below interview Vin goes into a bit what they were planning (this is the week of USAs) and makes it sound like he's less concerned with worlds right now than running a super 1500.
http://www.runnerspace.com/video.php?do=view&video_id=14354
As you said, Vin must see something from workouts that makes him think Andy is ready to go "really, really fast" for 1500. And knowing Vin 3:36 is not considered "really, really fast".
Unfortunately it sounds like they only have one mile lined up for him right now with a couple 800's. Be nice to get another 1500 in the line up since having one crack a mile isn't the greatest opportunity while in europe, especially if it's his first race since NCAA's.
Zat0pek,
you speak wisdom sir.
I would love to know if Wheating has done any real speed/spring work yet - something to really know and maximize his speed.
It seems like he lopes along comfortably until he decides to kick to win,
Of course we do not know, but I wonder what kind of increase in workload Vin gave him this past year?
Go Lambo wrote:
Zat0pek,
you speak wisdom sir.
I would love to know if Wheating has done any real speed/spring work yet - something to really know and maximize his speed.
It seems like he lopes along comfortably until he decides to kick to win,
Of course we do not know, but I wonder what kind of increase in workload Vin gave him this past year?
It's hard to imagine Vin being able to hold Andy back too much on the 1500 type workouts when you have Centro & Rupp rocking with guys like Biwott, Wall and McNamara not too far behind. I think more than anything he's trying to limit his mileage still and possibly pull him out of parts of the 1500 workouts and substituting more speed oriented and less volume sessions.
I know in the past he had guys like Lunn, Riley, Jennings and Stember who could all run around 3:35-3:38 for 1500 but yet Stember and Jennings were 800-1500 guys while Lunn was primarily a 1500 guy who could have run a good 3K and Riley was a 1500-5K type. He'd overlap these guys in workouts while tailoring the complete workout for each guy.
Personally, much like Zat0pek I think a lot of Wheatings limitations are still upstairs. Mentally he doesn't know what he's capable of yet. He is timid in racing until he at least smells the finish line. He was pretty terrified of doing the 800-1500 double at Pac-10's with 4 races in 2 days and yet in both finals he was running faster than anyone down the homestretch and blowing past the line.
My guess is that the double at Pac-10s was a huge fitness boost for Wheating since he had never done anything like that before and he was probably looking really good coming into NCAA's in his workouts. Like I said, Vin doesn't make bold statements so for him to feel like Wheating is ready to go "really, really fast" right now I think he has seen some stuff behind the scenes. His NCAA semi looked like he breezed away from guys who ran 1:46!
Been There, Done That...
I mostly agree with you.
But it seemed like Wheating was tired.
And I wonder if that work load didn't just lead to his injury.
And his injury is curious, calf injuries are pretty rare in runners that young, in my experience. So I am wondering if the work load just didn't get to him...
And I am concerned about that calf injury, in my experience, once runners start getting them, they become a constant worry or threat...
It could be this is a one off, and he'll be okay.
Hopefully, they have not good, but GREAT sports medicine and took a good look at it and will take preventative measures for next year.
My thinking was that that Pac Ten 1500/800 double was a trial run for next years NCAA's.
Vin knows he won't have Rupp's 20 points, so where does he replace the points to try and win a title in front of the home crowd?
Do you mean tired at the NCAA final? He didn't look good, that's for sure but he had a stomach bug and vin said he had lost fluids. That would have increased the chance for the calf tightness. As far as not looking good, the stomach, the calf and the immense pressure of 10 points or nothing on his shoulders coming into the race (already knowing he was ill) would certainly make him look tired. Personally I thought he looked like sh@t, but he still ran 1:46 and won.
The calf thing might have come on just then or perhaps the double at pac-10s and rounds at regionals had put a little strain on it and the dehydration and rounds at NC's set it off.
Either way it seems like he was actually ready to run but Vin was being ultra conservative (and probably smart) by pulling him out of USA's.
The trick with him is balancing being able to challenge him with more and keeping him healthy. Coming from so little base and background into racing and working out at his level is pretty drastic. He may need to do what Rupp does and subsitute some surface mileage with the underwater treadmill mileage just as a preventative measure even when he feels healthy.
Rupp had an awakening last year at the olympics. Andy just didn't understand what he was doing. Perhaps racing in Europe will be his awakening. Next year at NCAA's could be interesting if Wheating, Centro, Ulrey and Fernandez are all in it. Especially with Wheating and Centro at Hayward field.
Do you think Vin should train and peak Andy to double at NCAA's?
It will be his senior campaign...
I think it is worth considering (obviously if the schedule allows it).
If the schedule allowed for it reasonably. Hard to imagine him not getting top 3 in both and possibly winning one or both. Either way that's obviously more than 10 in a single event (which isn't guaranteed anyway).
It would have to come down to the schedule, his health and fitness at the time. The problem is that is 3 x 800 rounds and 2 x 1500. At his level though he really should be able to sit in the back and place himself in the need spot just to move on to the next round and use no extra energy. With no worlds or olympics to worry about that makes even more sense.
Could also depend on how the other guys are looking. If McNamara is healthy even more than 50% of the 2009-2010 year he could be in a position to score some bigger points in the 1500 and he may do a 5K. He has very good cross country strength so he may be a great 5K guy. You have some very talented recruits coming in who may be able to pick up points in the 800 or 1500. If Puskedra comes around he may be ready to get into the top 5 in the 10K.
A lot of things could factor into that decision, and I don't think Vin will make a final decision until the last second he has to. Even then he could enter Wheating in both and have him scrap one if they don't need points or if he is tired or has an injury concern.
It is going to be a really interesting year...
Going to be the first full season with out Rupp in some time.
Are the college coaches allowed to issue summer training outlines / schedules for the incoming recruits?