Wariner - dead last in 200m semi heat

sjc wrote:

happened twice in 2005.

men's 200m final even though gatlin was probably doping. amazing that tyson gay was only running 20.3 then.

http://www.iaaf.org/history/wch/season=2005/eventcode=3365/results/bydiscipline/disctype=4/sex=M/discCode=200/combCode=hash/roundCode=f/results.html#detM_200_hash_f

More amazing that Usain Bolt was running 26.3

chimes wrote:

If you dont win 400s on strength why dont the fastest 100m guys win 400s. Its because theres an element of strength and aerobics. Wariner has that ability, but he's not a pure sprinter. He will not break 20 sec. He's just not cut out for it.

Compare all the 100m and 200m sprinters around him, and compare builds, he is clearly built for Endurance and not strength.

I'm sure he could do amazing things in the 800 and probably a pretty decent 1500, but why would he when he is the fastest thing since Michael Johnson in the Quarter?

Definitely eased up before the finish line; there is definitely nothing wrong with him, he ran 45 flat several weeks ago. Btw, JW is pretty quick, his 200m PR is faster than most world class 400m runners, which I think is close to 20 flat. His mid to late season workouts are strenght based, which is why the faster he gets in 400m, the slower he gets in the 200m; he has run his fastest 200m early in the season.

He seems determined to add a secord event and I wished it was the 400 hurles as opposed to the 800m. He ran some hurldes in HS, so he knows how to hurdle. I would bet he could run 48x in he 400h with only decent form. People are hoping to see him run 800 and I am one of them who specutales he could be pretty decent at it, but I don't think he going to run 1:43s becasue in spite of his slight frame, he definitely sprinter. Why would you waste your time running 1:46 800s when you are one of the best 400m runners in the world.

Michael Johnson, Steve Lewis, Butch Reynolds, LaShawn Mertitt, etc., have all run 800m time trials, so what they can do in the 800 is never a total mystery...usually they run in the low 1:50s, which perhaps with a little specific training they could run 1:47/48.

Wariner never ran hurdles in high school...

He began running track his sophomore year with the 400m, and I never saw him seriously run anything besides the 4x100m, 200m 400m and 4x400m.

Clearly, he could be effective at the 400ih, but he certainly does not "know how to hurdle."

Hurdling isn't rocket science, so he could learn, but I would defy anyone to find an instance where he ran a hurdle race with any kind of seriousness.

I do agree, however, that his potential at 800m isn't what everyone makes it out to be. You don't run sub 1:44 without a huge aptitude for distance running. We have no idea if he has the endurance needed.

In regards to his 200m, it's not anything to worry about. His 200m PR is ~ 20.2 which is plenty fast to be a 400m gold medalist.

Wariner should move to the 800 before it is too late. He looks to have the endurance when he runs the 400 and wins with such ease. He could even double in the 4 and 8.

Wariner's PB for the season is 44.66, vs. 44.50 for Merritt.

I don't know that JW will win at Worlds, but he's a lock for some sort of medal.

I always wondered what someone like him could come back in if he went out in 50.0 or even 49.xx.

With a little mileage and some longer speed work...

Again, he is not a shoe-in for a fast 800m time..

if he did some mileage and "long speed work" it would simply be harder for him to run that opening lap 50.0..

if now a 50.00 400m requires an effort level of 2 or 3 (on a scale of 1 to 10) it would require a 4 or 5 after distance training...

his all out effort 400m time would go from 43.XX to somewhere in the 45.00 ballpark, and then he's just mediocre (relatively) at two events..

the 400m and 800m are in a different universe from one another..the 200m and 400m are much closer and hardly anyone does both really well..

Compare all the 100m and 200m sprinters around him, and compare builds, he is clearly built for Endurance and not strength.

Compare the build of Bolt to nearly any elite 100 or 200 sprinter. He's half a foot taller than most. Does that mean that he's running the wrong event?

you run race-specific training to get somewhat comfortable at that pace and slower paces can be considerably harder if you don't do race-specific training at those paces. That difficulty is compounded by the fact that he would have to hold the pace for twice as long. But in this case twice as long means an entirely different kind of race. 400m is a long sprint. 800m is equal parts sprint and endurance, which is why the two types of 800m runners (long sprinters and distance runners) both have a chance to win, and usually are very close at the finish. Long sprinters like Everett can be very comfortable running 24-5/50-1 for the first lap and then struggle quite a bit, often slowing down by 5-7 seconds on the second lap, whereas distance runners like Symmonds and Wheating do better when they go out a few seconds slower and come much closer to an even split. El Caballo, despite his muscular physique, proved it was possible to dominate the 4 and the 8 simultaneously. JW if anyone seems to have the physique to do the same. But he sure lacks the desire. By the way, that is a nice interview with LaShawn Merritt, linked on letsrun, in which he denies that he could run a good 800 much under 2, though possibly 1:50 with specific training.

The people who claim Wariner would be amazing at the 800m because of his body type absolutely amaze because of their ignorance.

The truth is that sprinters come in all different body types ranging from Johnson, who was buff to Wariner, who is quite lean.

However, if you look at the athletes who ran some of the fastest times in the 400m, many of them have an extremely similar build to wariner. They are tall, extremely lean, have tight, but smaller muscle, skinny long legs, and are very cut.

Look at some of the greatest 800m guys, and you will see Wariner doesn\'t actually really look, or run like a great 800m guy.

Butch Reynolds 43.2

http://www.ohiostatealumni.org/images/Reynolds_past.JPG

Quincy Watts 43.5

http://static.blip.tv/Fjlee-1992OlympicGames400MetersSemifinal426-709.jpg

Dan Everett 43.8

http://www.sporting-heroes.net/files_athletics/AKABUSI_Kriss_1991_GH_L.jpg

Lee Evans

http://www.shafatloss.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/lee-evans-400m-training.jpg

yeah!

no!!!!!

I think the stronger argument is that if he runs 20.2 in the 200m, but 43.45 in the 400m, he isn't slowly down as much as someone like Merritt (19.9 - 43.75) or Johnson (19.32-43.18). Thus, he must have superior endurance to Merritt and Johnson.

So, perhaps that endurance could translate to an 800m. I have to imagine he could run 51.5 twice, right around 1:43. That still doesn't mean he should give up the 400m, as in a good year he is the best 400m runner in the world, and 1:43 would still put him behind several 800m runners. He would absolutely decimate a slow championship race, though. Can you imagine if the field went out slow for the first 400 of an 800 with Jeremy Wariner in the midst? If they went out in 54, he would CRUSH them.

Mr. Arms wrote:

Again, he is not a shoe-in for a fast 800m time..

if he did some mileage and "long speed work" it would simply be harder for him to run that opening lap 50.0..

if now a 50.00 400m requires an effort level of 2 or 3 (on a scale of 1 to 10) it would require a 4 or 5 after distance training...

his all out effort 400m time would go from 43.XX to somewhere in the 45.00 ballpark, and then he's just mediocre (relatively) at two events..

the 400m and 800m are in a different universe from one another..the 200m and 400m are much closer and hardly anyone does both really well..

But we don't know that Wariner's 400 would necessarily regress to 45.00. It's possible that what he loses in 200 speed he could make back up with 800 endurance, so that 400 time might stay right where it is.

It is possible to be in very good 400 and 800 shape at the same time. After all, both of Juantorena's prs - 44.26 and 1:43.50 - were run within a few days of each other at the Montreal Games.

Hallo wrote:

I think Wariner would clearly be suited for like a 600m. Sad when your best even isn't an event.

So the double world 400m champion was not suited to that event?

sjc wrote:amazing that tyson gay was only running 20.3 then.

That is woefully inaccurate to describe Tyson Gay as "only running 20.3 then". A few things to point out:-

1. He had already run 19.93 and 19.99 that season (and was to run 19.96 to win GP Final after WCH)

2. The weather was terrible in Helsinki so times were not so meaningful.

3. He ran the fastest heat 19.99 (+4.3), the fastest qf 20.64 (-1.1) and the fastest sf 20.27 (-0.3) before a relatively poor run of 20.34 (-0.5) for 4th in the final. Conditions were in fact far worse than those wind readings generally indicate (ie cold and generally wet!)

Sometimes you have to look a little further than the surface. Actually I know that's not common on these boards :)

Mr. Arms wrote:

Again, he is not a shoe-in for a fast 800m time..

if he did some mileage and "long speed work" it would simply be harder for him to run that opening lap 50.0..

if now a 50.00 400m requires an effort level of 2 or 3 (on a scale of 1 to 10) it would require a 4 or 5 after distance training...

his all out effort 400m time would go from 43.XX to somewhere in the 45.00 ballpark, and then he's just mediocre (relatively) at two events..

the 400m and 800m are in a different universe from one another..the 200m and 400m are much closer and hardly anyone does both really well..

Tell that to Juantorena. You're just a full of shit arrogant ass - and Wariner did in fact run the hurdles a few time in HS. If he added strength / endurance work to his training in no way does it mean his effort to run a 49 or 50 400 would increase so much. Mr. Head up Ass should be your name.

HS in Texas u bee esser wrote:

Tell that to Juantorena. You're just a full of shit arrogant ass - and Wariner did in fact run the hurdles a few time in HS. If he added strength / endurance work to his training in no way does it mean his effort to run a 49 or 50 400 would increase so much. Mr. Head up Ass should be your name.

Calm down. Mr. Arms is astounding in his ignorance on many occasions, but relax. Wariner's slight build is an advantage that most other top 400 runners do not enjoy. A lot of them are bulky from drug use no doubt. Even Merritt has become suspiciously buffed out the last couple of years. Look at him on the front of TafNews in '05 and look at him now. You don't grow muscle like that naturally while training for the 200/400. That aside, Wariner's small frame and rather obvious endurance would point toward a possibility of his having great potential in the 800. However, even if has the "aptitude" for middle distance running, he'd have to possess the mentality, which is doubtful. He has the sprinter's mentality, and those guys, despite the pain of a 400, generally whither while trying the 800, partly from lack of ability, and partly from not having the mind to battle back the pain and fatigue barriers. Sure, that has to be developed, but these guys generally aren't the "type" to do that. If Wariner had gone somewhere other than Baylor, he probably would have been moved to the 800 (due to the racial brainwashing in the US and the West in general the last few decades) so he'd either be a hot-shot 800 guy now, more likely a mediocre 800 runner now or some guy who gave up the sport and people would simply go "Remember that guy..." and that would be it.