Torn between becoming a HS teacher or a college professor.

1. Academic politics are the very worst. The stakes are very low, the players are embedded in spite of their malfeasant behavior and the transparency levels are very low. I've worked private sector as well, and in cases of managerial malfeasance, these were dealt with much faster and more professionally in the private sector than the academe. Academe has a bad rep for negativity, futility, harassment of various kinds and so on. Quite rightly so. A bad situation is almost insecapable because of the nature of academic networks (inbred, secretive, lacking in competition for positions etc).

2. Tenure is not easy. There's some juvenile fantasy about what this actually means. One thing to be prepared for is the staggering erosion of confidence and self-belief that results from a system in which reviews are designed as mechanisms of attrition, not as objective evaluations of content or product. Read the Chronicle of Higher Education fora for a wide range of faculty views. Especially the Job Search and On The Tenure Track forums for aspiring and early-career college instructors. You will garner a more realistic understanding of what this means.

+1.

Do NOT go to grad school for a Ph.D. If you have a good aptitude for math and science, avoid teaching altogether.

Sadly I would say go into business and forget teaching altogether. I was a high school teacher until a month ago. LOVED the students, even their quirkiness and it was fun trying to get them engaged. The last 2 schools I taught at were private and considered the best in the state. But the politics and adult bullying is horrible! Coworkers stabbing you in the back to get the best students, the best and smallest classes, seems no one is in it for the kids - just their personal easiest job and to hell with the others. The cheating at both was unbelievable, teachers did not care and kids would even complain how they never looked. The teacher next door told me point blank, "I am part of the cheating problem, it is not worth it to me, I never look." But I get it - when reporting cheating to asst principal he would sometimes not addresses it (and not let us) - afraid of parents. One day he quite in your face just told me, "if they get to college and find they are unprepared I guess they wasted their money!" It is very hard to work in that sort of work environment when you care. Another teacher down the hall would saunter into class at the last minute each day as she needed to fill up her coffee. Parents complained, but no, can't discipline long term teachers! Yes, there is 'unspoken' tenure at private schools - those teachers get to do or not do whatever they want! One came late to class after lunch nearly every day one semester, kids would even come into my room rather than wait for her to unlock door. One day they banged on my door yelling "where is our teacher". And we won't even go into the bullying, and just general meanness you will get if you actually do a nice job and care - those 'tenured' don't want you to raise the bar. Yep - 7th best private school according to Niche! I removed my own kids from 4 private schools because such teachers do not care and no one in admin cared to address it. Much better education in a public school. They told me I was one of the best teachers in my last school - probably as I was one of the few who actually looked at homework and showed up on time - but what was going on made me literally sick due to stress. I am now missing my students, my heart is broken, teaching stinks. Moving to adjunct next semester. I always dabbled in adjunct and loved it - had kind admin who cared about students. Pay is bad though. Majored in math and taught science also. Sis in law is a chemical engineer - I should have gone the engineer route. Sorry this is bitter - you will either hate hs teaching or love it and then others will hate on you!

In which way? Toward male or female? Or does it depend on the subject?

Teachers are underpaid, but journalists are WAY underpaid, especially at small papers around the CLE, Ohio, area. That area is dying.

The starting salary I had in 2006 when I graduated was 25k. My teacher friends started at 37k (not great, but better than 25k).

25k isn't even enough to be a Burger King manager (It was $12.00/hr. at the time). Managers then made $15-20/hr., depending on if they were swing or store managers.

As far as this question, be a college prof. My friend is a college prof at Eastern Carolina University and runs the writing center there. She got tenure and it took 6 years. She can afford her own house now. However, they have to worry about pay freezes and funding cuts from the state (North Carolina).

say its not so wrote:

You are wrong about much.

You don't need a PHD to teach in college.

At a community college this may be the case. But a huge majority (I would say at least 95%) of professors at the University level have PhDs. I work at a small liberal arts college (in accounting) that is no where close to be academically prestigious. Every single one of our faculty have a PhD or MD (or its terminal equivalent, like a ThD). We wouldn't even consider a candidate for a position unless they were either ABD with a solid publication history or a PhD with teaching experience.

For the OP: lots of things to think about. Some of the pertinent questions off the top of my head:

1) Are you a white male?

2) Are you in the humanities?

3) Are you willing to go tens of thousands of dollars into debt for a PhD only to see adjunct work and no health benefits for the first 5-7 years of your career (i.e., making ~$20k annually with no health insurance)?

4) Are you willing to cater to the whims of the feelings of your students so that no one gets offended by what you say?

5) Are you willing to spend 50%+ of your time dealing with admin issues?

If you said yes to 1 & 2, then teach high school. You will never be hired at a University.

If you said Yes to 1 & 3 or 4 or 5 then you are insane and probably belong in whatever corner of higher ed you end up in...with your food stamps and alcoholism firmly in your grip.

Listen to this person.

This is a no brainer. Higher education. Find a job in a smaller town. Live the simple life and smother yourself in your field of learning, if you want. It appears you already do that, which I think is fantastic. Having a passion for something is enviable. Get married to a skinny girl who likes to run a little and go to the market. Live in a big house that doesn't cost a lot because you live in the country. Have kids, put them through college for free where you work at. Or maybe there is a good sister school somewhere they'd rather go to that still won't cost you a lot. Don't forget, most higher education schools have great athletic facilities that you can use for free. Stay fit, live long, and raise a good family.

You won't regret it.

The poster above has the right idea!!

Feel free to email me,

erik@letsrun.com

, if you have any specific questions. I taught high school for three years, coached for seven, finished a PhD, and have been an instructional track faculty member at a big public university (i.e., main priorities are teaching, not research) for 5 years.

I agree with what most people are saying.

Quick comments:

The variation in quality among college teaching jobs, as well as the difficulty in getting those jobs, is very wide. The pay for instructional college teaching gigs is not outstanding. There's a big difference between, for example:

Adjunct/visiting professor -- temporary contract job, usually no benefits, often many classes, pay is often very low

Lecturer/professor of practice/instruction -- real contract, benefits, usually a large teaching load (3/3 or 4/4)

Tenure-track professor at teaching-focused U (liberal arts, directional universities) -- real contract, benefits, somewhat higher prestige, generally a large teaching load (usually 3/3 or 4/4), less stress of having to publish to not get fired in 7 years

Tenure-track professor at research U -- real contract, benefits, higher prestige, fewer classes (usually 2/2 or 3/3), high stress of having to publish to not get fired in 7 years

Adjunct/visiting jobs will often pay you less than you'd make as a high school teacher.

It sounds to me the best job for you would be a lecturer/professor of instruction job. These are easier to get than tenure-track jobs but harder than adjunct jobs. A big difference between these jobs and HS teaching jobs is that you'll most likely have to be willing to move to get the teaching college job, whereas HS teaching jobs are plentiful enough that you could probably teach anywhere if you're willing to drive a little, and slowly work your way closer to your desired location as you gain experience. Just fact of life -- there are way fewer college teaching gigs.

Lecturer jobs will often pay more, but not much more than a HS teaching job. E.g., where I am, the starting salary full-time is about 60k, whereas a HS teaching gig in same area woudl start around 45k I think. The job is definitely easier than HS teaching, which is a grind. E.g., in HS you tach 5-6 hours a day 5 days a week. A full-time lecturer probably teaches 3-4 hours a day 4 days a week.

There's an opportunity cost to doing a PhD -- 5 to 7 years where you're not really earning. (Though you shouldn't be taking on debt if you do it right. Do NOT pay for your own PhD, that's a suckers bet.)

High schoolers in general probably care less about school but if you think all college students are engaged with learning you'll be very disappointed. My top HS students were more talented than my top college students by the nature of those students getting sorted into highly selective colleges.

For everyone who replied, keep in mind the original post is over 10 years old. By now I am thinking the dude has made his decision.

Now I'm curious on what decision he made. This was a good post despite it being 10 years old.

If you go for a PhD, the most important part of the process occurs as you make an application. First, and most important, talk to the professor you will be working for, find out his research interests, what you will be working on and the support you can expect (financial and otherwise). Second, talk to his graduate students and find out what is really going on. Third, assess your own interests and capabilities and whether they are a good fit for the graduate program. Getting accepted, even to an elite school, is not a guarantee of anything - the schools need graduate students to teach sections and grade papers, granting the doctorate is an entirely separate matter. In that respect the interest of the school is not aligned with your best interests.

this guy gets it

say its not so wrote:

Many college professor's make less than public school teachers.

.

You’re an English teacher, right?

Great description and Plus-One for this poster. Academia is a corrupt cesspool of anti-integrity. Regarding the humanities especially, do yourself a favor and read through some of the published work in any of your favored disciplines. You'll quickly come to see that publishing is controlled by nonsensical fads and that much of what you read is worthless. Go into HS teaching or better yet, be productive and do something with your career that contributes to society. Academics are leeches.

How do you avoid paying for your own PhD?

MrsDTeach wrote:

How do you avoid paying for your own PhD?

In many non-professional fields, good graduate programs provide their grad students with teaching assistantships/research assistantships/fellowships that include a tuition waiver. In STEM, the humanities, or social sciences, never go into debt for a PhD. Make the school pay you, not the other way around. If the program can't provide a TA/RA slot for you, it doesn't have enough funding for the number of students it is admitting each year. If you can't get admitted to a good program with funding, the PhD is unlikely to be worth the debt you will incur. If you do get funding, it's possible to live frugally and come out of grad school without debt. There are lots of details and variations on this, but that's the gist of it.

Please note that the Chronicle of Higher Education closed its forums this last summer, but much of that community has now migrated to thefora.org.

Here in my home country in Europe you can't just enroll in some kind of grad school or something. You have to search for an open PhD position and apply for it. If you got selected, then you get a contract from the university and a salary (enough to live on and even save a little bit of money). All material costs for your research are usually covered, too, and additional costs like flying to scientific conferences and so on. Sometimes you have to do a bit of teaching but not much (just 1 lecture or practical course) and sometimes not even that, so you can commit full time to your research.

Nobody would ever pay for a PhD, at least in science or engineering.

This thread was started 10 years ago so the OP has made whatever choice they made.

As a prof who got a engineering faculty job at a major research university right out of finishing a PhD and got tenured there but has since moved to a small private teaching college, I'll say there's a lot of truth in this thread along with some people who clearly have no idea what they're talking about. You'll note that there's a lot of variety. There's a huge difference in every aspect between an adjunct on a teaching assignment in humanities at a small liberal arts school and a full research and teaching professor in science or engineering at a big state university.