This weekend, first I read Paul Tergat never trains at altitude, then that the 2:04.27 guys only run 80-85 mpw.
I hear my preconceptions about training coming crashing down.
This weekend, first I read Paul Tergat never trains at altitude, then that the 2:04.27 guys only run 80-85 mpw.
I hear my preconceptions about training coming crashing down.
Coach Italians! wrote:
Instead of coaching a bunch of Kenyans he should coach Italians. Then we could see how good of a coach he is.
well, you are really poorly prepared...
if you would have done your homework better, you should know that "Italians" were very successful in Marathon when they had people with right talent and motivation and under the coaching of the so called "italian athletic school" (Gigliotti, Canova, etc)
Canova, Gigliotti and all those form the School in Formia shared the same training philosophy that brought and is bringing several athletes to success.
Canova has explained already several times that Italy is suffering from lack of talents and therefore he is lacking the basic material to work on, so he must work on Kenyans, etc
Italians coaches are also tainted (Rosa) and it strikes
me that someone can coach a bunch of world-class runners ranging from 800m to the marathon. It strongly suggests
an eastern european style regimen including a systematic
use of PEDs. Oops I opened the can of worms. Sorry.[quote]tired hips wrote:
Renato you are a wonderful human being .It takes a great man to come to a public website full of clueless critics and bitter pessimists and share his expertise( especially when one has the sort of credentials you have).Your posts give us an insight to athletes that ever so often we see producing superb perfomances (like kibet and Kwambai on sunday)yet we may never have the chance to know the sort of workouts they do with their coaches etc.I also believe that budding coaches and runners on this website benefit alot from the technical info in your posts.Personally i have never met Claudio but i agree with you that this guy is the real deal;atleast his athletes results for the last 4 years showcase his prowess.
So renato please keep posting coz what you are doing is remarkable.
To answer native son question;- yeah i think a year or so ago it was reported that Claudio is in a relationship with janet.
xxx wrote:
Italians coaches are also tainted (Rosa) .... Sorry.[quote]tired hips wrote:
I must notice that many let's run posters have the tiring slogan that "non US runner/coaches ==> all doped; our beloved US runners ==> go on Gatorade and fries".
history shoes that whenever there is a chance to dig really into US sportsmen, the dopers are as many as in other places.
On a statistical base there is no evidence that this or that country is "doped": the countries without dopers are only where the checks are lax...
Probably at the very top, they are all battling with the same weapons....
Dr Rosa is not only an esteemed coach, but he also set up a gogeous structure to identify and norture talents (at the time also in USA...). So he understood well that you can not take over an athlete at 21 years old and make him a great. The work must start already earlier.
The guy is probably not aware of the rosa camps in U.S.A.Indeed rosa has camps set up in the country to identify and nauture young talent,so don't go trashing him simply because you assume he hasn't helped the U.S.Rosa has also worked with athletes like josh cox( temporarily)
Mr Renato
Could you please give us some example of Ducan Kibet training and also his group.
And how did you calculated this
1500m :
Duration 30' - 50'
Speed : 1,3 - 1,4 slower than RP
Examples : AT 3'30" (RP 14") : 18"2 - 19"6 (3'02" - 3'16")
AT 4' (RP 16") : 20"8 - 22"4 (3'28" - 3'44")
14 sec each 100 so how did you get 18.2 sec for the AT?
Thanks
well gharib started at age 22 and has run under an hour for a half marathon and 2:07:02 for the marathon, along with an olympic silver in the marathon and a couple of world marothon championships golds, i think he will go under 2:06:00 in the london marathon.
i dont know what your standards for great are? but to me he has done great based on what he has already done, even if he did not start running until a year AFTER he was over 21.
SPECIAL TRAINING : is the training that DIRECTLY is joined with the SPECIFIC Training.
We have 2 branches of SPECIAL TRAINING :
a) Biomechanical support (type of strength connected with the event, and speed faster than 10% of the speed of the event)
b) Bioenergetic / Methabolic support (extension around the 90% of the speed of the event).
We can give some example of the SPECIAL speed for event :
800 (Athlete 1'44") : 28"/29" (200), 56"/58" (400), 1'10"/1'13" (500), 1'24" / 1'27" (600), 2'28" / 2'32" (1000), 5'20" / 5'30" (2000), Competitions of 1500m
1500 (Athlete 3'30") : 1' / 1'02" (400), 1'15" / 1'18" (500), 1'30" / 1'33" (600), 2'32" / 2'37" (1000), 5'20" / 5'30" (2000), 8'15" / 8'30" (3000), 4 km continuous in 11', competitions of 3000 / 5000m
5000 (Athlete 13') : 62" / 64" (400), 1'32" / 1'36" (600), 2'40" / 2'45" (1000), 5'30" / 5'40" (2000), 8'25" / 8'40" (3000), 8-12 km continuous run at 2'55" / km, competitions of Cross and 10000m
10000 (Athlete 26'40") : 64" / 66" (400), 2'45" / 2'50" (1000), 5'35" / 5'45" (2000), 8'30" / 8'45" (3000), 15 km continuous run at 3' > 2'55", competitions of cross and HM
HM (Athlete 60') : 2'50" / 2'55" (1000), 5'45" / 5'55" (2000), 8'45" / 8'55" (3000), 25 km continuous run at 3' /km, competitions of cross or pacing 25-30km in a Marathon
MARATHON (Athlete 2:05') : 2'42" / 2'45" (1000), 5'30" / 5'40" (2000), 8'20" / 8'35" (3000), 14'10" / 14'30" (5000), 20km continuous run at 2'55" / 3', 45-50 km continuous run at 3'20", competitions of 10000m / Cross / HM.
How is possible to see, FOR THE MARATHON SPECIAL TRAINING IS SOMETHING SHORTER AND FASTER THAN THE MARATHON.
For all the other events, is something Longer (as global volume) and slower than the Race Pace
Speed : 1,4 - 1,5 slower than the Race Pace (RP)
Renato Canova wrote:
5,000 (Athlete 13'00) 2'40" / 2'45" (1000), 5'30" / 5'40" (2000), 8'25" / 8'40" (3000),
10000 (Athlete 26'40) 2'45" / 2'50" (1000), 5'35" / 5'45" (2000), 8'30" / 8'45" (3000),
HM (Athlete 60') : 2'50" / 2'55" (1000), 5'45" / 5'55" (2000), 8'45" / 8'55" (3000),
M (Athlete 2:05') : 2'42" / 2'45" (1000), 5'30" / 5'40" (2000), 8'20" / 8'35" (3000), 14'10" / 14'30" (5000)
How is possible to see, FOR THE MARATHON SPECIAL TRAINING IS SOMETHING SHORTER AND FASTER THAN THE MARATHON.
For all the other events, is something Longer (as global volume) and slower than the Race Pace
Of all distances, the marathon athlete runs the fastest for 1-2-3km repeats, almost as fast as a 5k athlete. Why? What specifically about the marathon require this?
thanx in advance!
How much of this aerobic support can a runner do a week could a 52" - 1'48" 800 meter - 3'42" runner do 5 of those 20' - 40' runs a week? If the target is to train for 1500?
SPECIFIC TRAINING : is all the Training including speeds between 95 and 105% af the speed of the race. For a middle distance runner, SPECIFIC is TO RUN, and nothing else. When we speak about exercises, gym and other training of support, we speak about FUNDAMENTAL or SPECIAL TRAINING, useful for bettering the SPECIFIC.
Which are the specific speeds for events ?
800m (1'44") : 12"4 - 13"6 per 100m
1500m (3'30") : 13"3 - 14"7 per 100m
5000m (13') : 14"8 - 16"4 per 100m
10000m (26'40") : 15"2 - 16"8 per 100m
HM (59'47") : 16"2 - 17"8 per 100m
MAR (2:05') : 17" - 18"7 per 100m
If we have to give some example, for the different events, we can show some workouts as follows :
800m
- 2 sets of 5 x 300m in 39" (rec. 1' between tests, 4' between sets)
- 4 x 400 in 51" rec. 5' / 6'
- 3 x 600 in 1'17" rec. 6' / 8'
- 1000 in 2'17" + 400 in 51" + 200 in 24"5, rec. 8'
1500m
- 2 sets of 8 x 300m in 40" (rec. 45" between tests, 4' between sets)
- 8 x 400 in 56" rec. 2'
- 5 x 600 in 1'24" rec. 3' / 4'
- 3 x 1000 in 2'20" rec. 6' / 8'
- 2000 in 4'55" + 1000 in 2'22" + 600 in 1'24", rec. 6'
5000m
- 15 x 400 in 60" rec. 45"
- 10 x 600 in 1'30" / 1'32" rec. 1'30" / 2'
- 6 x 1000 in 2'32" / 2'36" rec. 2' / 3'
- 3 x 2000 in 5'15" / 5'20" rec. 3' / 4'
- 3000 in 8' + 2000 in 5'15" + 1000 in 2'32", rec. 5' / 6'
10000m
- 15 x 600 in 1'33" / 1'35" rec. 1'30"
- 10 x 1000 in 2'36" / 2'38" rec. 1'30" / 2'
- 4 x 2000 in 5'15" + 1 x 1000 in 2'30" rec. 4'
- 3000 in 8' + 2 x 2000 in 5'20" + 4 x 1000 in 2'38", rec. 3' between 3000 / 2000, 2' between 2000, 1'30" between 1000
HM
- 7 x 2000 in 5'35"/ 5'40" rec. 400m in 2'
- 5 x 3000 in 8'25" rec. 1000m in 3'15" / 3'20"
- 3 x 5000 in 14'15" rec. 1000m in 3'20"
- 15 km long continuous run at 102 % HMP
- 25 km long continuous run at 97% HMP
MARATHON
- 6 x 4000 in 11'40" rec. 1000m in 3'20" (29 km)
- 5 x 5000 in 14'40" rec. 1000m in 3'20" (29 km)
- 4 x 6000 in 17'40" rec. 1000m in 3'20" (27 km)
- 4 x 7000 in 21' rec. 1000m in 3'15" (23 km)
- 5 x 2000 in 5'40" inside a long run of 35 km at pace of 3'15"
- 25 km long continuous run at 102% of MP
- 30 km long continuous run at MP
- 35 km long continuous run at 97% of MP
- 40 km long continuous run at 92% of MP
How is possible to understand, the global volume of SPECIFIC TRAINING for session is HIGHER than the distance of the event in 800m, 1500m, 5000m, is about the same distance in 10,000m, and is generally shorter than the distance in HM and MARATHON.
So, if we have 4 different phylosophies of training for different periods (using a MACROCYCLE of 6 months, for example, that can divide Indoor and Outdoor season, or, in case of Marathon, Spring and Autumn Marathon), we have MESOCYCLES having different percentages of volume and intensity.
a) INTRODUCTIVE PERIOD : Is about 3 weeks long, at the beginning of the preparation. In this period, the goal is to build up the general fitness at high level, using seeral means of training : Long Run for increasing the Aerobic Resistance, Gym for strengthening, Short Sprint uphill for increasing the ability in recruitment, Technique for increasing the running ability. With different percentage, this is the goal for every athlete, from 800m to Marathon.
b) FUNDAMENTAL PERIOD : Can last about 2 months, and is the most important part of the preparation. During this period, we reach the MAX volume of km, with growing intensity.
When we look at short events (800-1500), this period is used for a strong increase of AEROBIC POWER, and of STRENGTH ENDURANCE. There is not yet high speed, but the extension is important. So, it's better to maintain the same speed trying to extend the distance (for example, starting with 62" for 400m we move to 1'33" for 600 and 2'04" for 800 and 2'35" for 1000m)or the number of repetitions (from 8 x 400 in 62" rec. 2' to 12 x 400 in 62" rec. 2') or to reduce the recovery (from 8 x 400 in 62" rec. 2' to 8 x 400 in 62" rec. 1'). WE ARE NOT INTERESTED IN RUNNING FASTER
When we look at middle events (5000-10000m), this period is used for a QUALIFICATION of the long run, moving from AEROBIC ENDURANCE to AEROBIC POWER. So, during the first part of the period WE INCREASE THE DISTANCE AND THE GLOBAL VOLUME, during the second part WE MAINTAIN THE DISTANCE AND THE VOLUME AND INCREASE THE SPEED.
When we look at HM and MARATHON, we have the same goal of 5000/10000m. During this period, these specialists can train together.
So, THE PERIOD IS FOR BUILDING VOLUME AT LOWER INTENSITY FOR TRACK RUNNERS, AND HIGHER INTENSITY WITH NOT VERY HIGH VOLUME (compared with the distance of the race)FOR THE HM AND MARATHON RUNNERS
Renato Canova wrote:
So, THE PERIOD IS FOR BUILDING VOLUME AT LOWER INTENSITY FOR TRACK RUNNERS, AND HIGHER INTENSITY WITH NOT VERY HIGH VOLUME (compared with the distance of the race)FOR THE HM AND MARATHON RUNNERS
So, as they move closer to the race, marathon and hm runners increase volume, while track athletes increase intensity? I can see how this would help a marathoner, and make the training less wearing, if the volume isn't maxed for the whole cycle.
Renato,
Thank you for the thoughts. They are very interesting.
Coach Italians! wrote:
Instead of coaching a bunch of Kenyans he should coach Italians. Then we could see how good of a coach he is.
Amen! Not taking anything at all from Renato (I'd probably be crucified on LRC if I did, of course), but Coach Italians just made a very valid point. These are arguably the most TALENTED runners in the world hand-picked by doctors. 18 and 21 year olds running under 2:07? These guys were born to run...literally. Come on folks.
what is the range of time that you feel is comfortable to stay training within the specific training zone
i can't fathom touching these workouts. these are so insanely fast. i'm not going to quit running but how can your "average" 8:40 2-miler ever think "i'm going to be great at this sport" without a serious redefinition of what "great" means?
Renato Canova wrote:
10000m
- 15 x 600 in 1'33" / 1'35" rec. 1'30"
- 10 x 1000 in 2'36" / 2'38" rec. 1'30" / 2'
- 4 x 2000 in 5'15" + 1 x 1000 in 2'30" rec. 4'
- 3000 in 8' + 2 x 2000 in 5'20" + 4 x 1000 in 2'38", rec. 3' between 3000 / 2000, 2' between 2000, 1'30" between 1000
What do the runners usually do for the rec. 1'30"/2' - is this jogging, walking, laying down, or just anything that they wish to do?
Thank you for sharing your training and ideas.