Tergat on why non-Africans lose

If proof of lack of attitude by American kids is needed, all you have to do is read this message board. On any given day, the board will be flooded with training threads that are saturated with the whiny "I can't" attitude.

There's more to it than that. It's a big part of it, but there's more, and it's beyond genetics. Go and watch the entire NFL combine. Not the highlights chosen to run on ESPN. Watch the whole thing. Then look at the make-up of the NFL. A lot of talented whites get ignored and the media goes right along with this dishonesty. There is slotting going on, performance at the combines be damned. Ask yourself if there isn't one, just one white better than the worst black cornerback in the NFL? Then again look at the results at the combine. The whites are being ignored, period, because the coaches themselves are brainwashed. To be blunt, whites in the West have been brainwashed for years. Sure, the Africans have a higher percentage of people physiologically suited for distance running, but there are whites with the talent. They either don't try the sport or don't put as much into it, as they're told from the get-go they can't do it. It won't matter if Ryan Hall improves all the way to 2:03. The chatter will still be the same; whites can't do it. Hall? Must be drugs. Wonder how many potential Wariners, Seahorns, Mottrams, Fernandez's, Webbs, Ryuns and others are being ko'd before the start by this type of thinking? Lots.

You can try and challenge the NFL example I brought up, but the flip side is that there are black QB's for instance, and black OL's who would be out of a job or at least not starters if they were white, based on performance. But the league doesn't want to be 'racist'. I can think of one below average black OL who was the protected by the league so much he was in the pro-bowl all the time, yet his true stats and performance were sub-par. And the players know it. This goes on in a lot of US pro sports leagues. Not just the NFL. But it's a good example.

suck a d africa wrote:

if its all about attitude, than how come africa isnt good at ANYTHING else? its genetic, end of story.

I think that to say that we are 'not good at ANYTHING else' other than running is a bit of a non sequitur. I think you'll find Africans in virtually every sphere of the globe. In other words, what one can do, another can do holding many variables constant.

If I may give our own example, Kenya got its independence in 1963. IT is only 45 years since. Precisely 45 and a half.

My parents are the first generation of KEnyans that went to school. THey are in their sixties.

Their parents, my grandparents were/are illiterate. They never went to school. THerefore, the contribution that has been made to our country by its citizenry has to a large extent only been made by this one generation.

We are where the US was in 1822 when James Monroe was president. A quick search tells me that he was the fifth president.

We've onlly had 3 presidents and 7 years ago, we had the first power handover.

We are still a young nation. Africa is also enslaved by its many cultural beliefs which in some ways hinder development.

IN 1822, the car had not even been invented, as well as the aeroplane and the internetS.

So, in 1822, someone would have said that America isn't good at very many things and he'd have been right.

With time, I htink Africa will rise from its own self inflicted mess and match in step with the rest of the world. Or may be not.

I have this time and time again and I'll say it for the umpteenth time.

Nobody knows why the East Africans are good. That's why we are having this debate.

Personally, I don't know the chemical formula of fire but I know one thing; if I put my hand over the fire, I'll wince and wail like a small boy. Yes, fire burns!

...........and the East Africans are fast.

I'll pose a different but somehow related question;

Why do Brazil and Argentina produce such world class footballers? THey have the finest players of any country in the world.

Brazil has won the World Cup a record five times. They've qualified for every world cup event. IT's the only country to do so.

Argentina churns out the highest number of world class players of any country in the world and exports them to Europe every year. They are in the hundreds.

Is it the genes, altitude, attitude, life style.......?

These two countries are neighbours and bitter football rivals. Their rivalry is akin to that of Ethiopia and KEnya.

I would hazard a guess that numerous Brazilian and Argentinian boys are kicking some kind of football around the streets and fields as often as they can.The ball becomes an extension of them.Just like it was for UK boys many years ago when England football was on top of the heap.Not any more.

In the distance running game a good little'un will most days beat a good big bloke.Add to that physical trait a great training attitude and a way out of relative poverty and why be surprised if the East Africans dominate.

Good on 'em and good on the few white blokes from other regions who match it with them on the odd occasion.

wejo wroteI met a guy (not girl) in Kenya who I think was running 2:06 for 800. He hadn\'t been running that long. I asked him whey he ran. He said he wanted to run professionally or perhaps get a college scholarship. A 2:06 800g thought this was possible in Kenya.

Today we all know the name of Daniel Komen.

suck a d africa wrote:

if its all about attitude, than how come africa isnt good at ANYTHING else? its genetic, end of story.

Yes I completly agree. I never understood why people have to rationalize about genetics (total BS) and all that stuff to explain why Africans routinely beat Americans.

They grow up watching runners.

American grow up watching the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc.

If we were to have an all-star match up in football, basketball, baseball, hockey and cross-country, US v east Africa.

US would win 4 out of 5 because those sports are a bigger part of our culture, and distance running is a bigger part of there culture. Some of you nerds might even call it comparative advantage.

You first point isn't necessarily true. A 3:42 1500 meter runner just coming out of college isn't guaranteed anything from the shoe companies. Certainly not enough to live of their athletics income. And guess who was a ran 3:44 for 1500m at age 22? Rashid Ramzi. 3:44 at 22, 3:39 at 23. World Champion a few years later. Hell, look at a guy like Taylor Milne, from Canada. An unspectacular 4 minute miler out of college who ran 3:35 last year and made the Olympics. Will he end up being Olympic final calibre? Maybe maybe not. But it just goes to show that the guys just under the level of "NCAA star" can come good.

This level of runner has a big decision to make - does he want to continue putting away the miles in the hope that he will make it big? Or does he say its not worth it and get a normal job that pays many times more what he would get from running? The point is, he has an option (often a better one). The Kenyans don't have a better option. It is either run or continue life near poverty.

Your second point just strengthens my argument - to be able to make a decent living in running you have to be able to win major marathons. And any american who is in a position to does so right out of college is already financially taken care of. So our runner is still faced with the prospect of 2 or 3 or perhaps 4 years of scraping by before he can even hope to live off running. And success isn't guaranteed - in fact, it is very rare. In our society, this sacrifice just isn't worth it to a lot of people.

I learned long ago from the Africans what makes them better. Turtle Blood! Maybe that was the Chinese. Heard everything from witch doctor stuff to Tiger pee. Just adding Tergats stuff to the list.

pointer outer wrote:

Yes I completly agree. I never understood why people have to rationalize about genetics (total BS) and all that stuff to explain why Africans routinely beat Americans.

They grow up watching runners.

American grow up watching the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc.

The biggest sport in Kenya, by far, is soccer, just like it is in most countries outside North America, Australia and Eastern Asia.

it's the better running economy as a result of natural selection, if you are as ectomorph as Paul Tergat it's easy to say that someone else doesn't train/race hard enough.

otherwise you could argue that kenyans dont suceed in weight lifting because they are too soft.

Think NBA basketball....

The rest of the world plays a lot of roundball, and there should be MORE non-US players in the NBA, but US players grow up seeing and thinking they are the best.

In DC where I grew up they had the "DC all-stars vs the rest of the country all-stars" and DC usually won. So if you were all-met in DC, 1) you are a GD good basketball players and 2) you had a shot at the pros. In DC high school ball, you played against people who were the best in the world, and that was considered normal.

Thats distance running in East Africa, and Kenya in particular.

OP. That is mostly baloney. These Africans have the genetics and the physical build to run faster then white Americans. . Attitudes and mental limitations of posters here on letsrun have little to do with our elite, professional runners. Africans/Afro-Americans are overall, simply better athletes.

These Africans are much like the Orientals; they don't divulge their doubts and fears to strangers, not even wejo.

"...The fact of the matter is most Western runners put mental limits on what they can accomplish".

........................................................

back in the 1970 and the 1980s the white runner hadn't experienced the onslought of East African freaks ... and yet, no whitey ran under 13, under 27 and so on. Maxed out!!!

This is a fine example of bull. I know runners on my team and me that are ridiculously dedicated but they will not be as good as Africans. Wow.

SO, if it is all mental attitude, why don't they think there way into having a team make the olympic 4x100?? Oh, thats right, because they don't have the GENETICS for sprinting.

A lot may be due to lifestyle as well. But not just attitude. Frankly, I find that quite insulting.

Typical letsrun.com wrote:

OP. That is mostly baloney. These Africans have the genetics and the physical build to run faster then white Americans. . Attitudes and mental limitations of posters here on letsrun have little to do with our elite, professional runners. Africans/Afro-Americans are overall, simply better athletes.

Then why does Webb have the fastest 1500 time in the world in the last 2 years and the 8th fastest time in the 800 in that period. Seb Coe in his prime would have likely won the 800/1500 double in Beijing. And Steve Scott would have been right there in the 1500.

Why is it in the US that as soon as we go over 1500, it's like turning a switch? The white genetics stop working at 1501?

My sense is that as soon as Americans get beyond the mile, there's a change in mental attitude that says, "We're distance runners now," and instead of things like Webb doing 12K of intervals and Lagat doing lots of 4-5 mile runs under 5:00 (which is what they do in Kenya), it's all about mileage and running slow(er). While the Africans are training for 5000/10000 more like they're middle distance runners. The Ethiopians running 60-100m sprints in spikes 1-2 times a week: What do you think they get from that? Not just kicking speed, but better running economy.

Africans body type tend to be better suited for longer distances. Longer the distance the more the Africans tend to dominate.

Of course there will be the rare white guy that can compete with the top Africans but this is extremly rare.