KU Coach-Bob Timmons, coach of Ryun and others-no holds barred article in RW

charlie: would you say Schmidt was the = to Timmons as far as high mileage and intensity; but on the high school level? Hence, all the great results in high school but not a large percentage of those stars improving or staying the course through college?

I think there is a new feature in the forum. Nicely done, bros!

Very true "seen it all in my lifetime"!

At the first track clinic I ever attended in 1975, Timmons was a guest speaker. His closing statement was, "Give this sport the respect it deserves." I don't recall a single specific workout he recommended, yet I have never forgotten his advice. We can all benefit from his closing message whether we agree with the messager or not.

After reading the Jim Ryun story as a sophmore in high school in '67, I wanted to run for Timmons, so badly! I was sure he could mold me into a champion too!

JScott, Dave Anderson did have a bit of a resurgence his senior year. Jon Callen also went to Kansas. He's a great guy.

I think a lot of people are right in their evaluation of Timmons. I would point out that from the mid 1950's to 1980 Kansas was a top five track power. They were every bit as good as Oregon, USC, UCLA, or Villanova. So you've got to give Timmie his due.

After reading it a second time I think the writer had an axe to grind. Timmons is in no condition to defend himself anymore. BTW.. the writer's a Missouri grad, go figure.

Jayhawk wrote:

From my limited experience training under him, it was way too intense. It was too many fast miles and intervals.

Sounds a like Paavo training.

After reading the article I realized that Timmons had/has short man's disease. Probably why he was successful and demanding.

kato wrote:

messager

[quote]Jayhawk wrote:

JScott, Dave Anderson did have a bit of a resurgence his senior year. Jon Callen also went to Kansas. He's a great guy.

But; considering they both ran 9 flat in that duel at the KU Relays in high school, in 1969, neither ran close to what was projected of them, in college based upon their stellar high school careers.

it made me sick to read this article about a man who did alot of great things for alot of great people. taking on guy (sharpe), who ran for the team 2 WEEKS, was completely weak. he's nothing more than a bitter guy with an axe to grind. i have a feeling that everything that goes wrong in his life is and has always been someone else's fault. there was no mention of the average hs guys who went on to great things- both in swimming and running. highlighting timmie's dementia and negatives was completely uncalled for regarding a lifetime of giving not only to track and field, the state of kansas, but really the entire world. quite a shame- the author of that piece of $hit should be ashamed.

I ran at KU long after Coach Timmons retired. So I have no firsthand knowledge of his coaching. I certainly know it was intense and it's absolutely fair to write an article about the pros and cons of that.

But the article's author (a University of Missouri graduate, by the way) almost seems to be poking fun at age-related issues that Coach Timmons suffers from. Lots of references to his forgetfulness and an odd mention of how he fell asleep while eating with a friend at a grocery store.

And I'd agree with the previous poster who questioned the quoting of Mike Sharp. Ran for 2 weeks and you use him as a main source for your article?

I was directed to the author's (Ben Paynter) web site, where he writes that he spent a few years "muckraking at The Pitch, a weekly newspaper in Kansas City, Missouri." It seems Mr. Paynter has taken that style to Runners World.

KU Alum wrote:

It seems Mr. Paynter has taken that style to Runners World.

Or at least RW paid for it, as I doubt he's directly in their employ but merely sold them his story.

jscott wrote:

charlie: would you say Schmidt was the = to Timmons as far as high mileage and intensity; but on the high school level? Hence, all the great results in high school but not a large percentage of those stars improving or staying the course through college?

Without a doubt, Verlyn was following Timmons plan. And remember, Verlyn ran for Timmons at KU.

Track work 4 straight days either breaks you are makes you very stong. Actually our meets were some of our easier days.

Makes me feel fortunate I met Busby at CMSU and learned about good steady tempo 10 miles. I think by blending the hard track stuff with the tempo 10 milers are what helped me go as far as I did.

I thought that it was one of the most disrespectful articles I have ever read, about an 84 year old man who suffers from mental impairment from a car accident. I am surprised that the magazine allowed much of the stuff in the article.....he is clearly an elderly man now and not the little dynamo that he once was. I just wish that the writer would be honest why he would slam an old man like that in print...it was a shameful article. And made me sick to my stomach.

Did you read the week of training in the article for October, 1963 in the middle of Cross Country season, Ryun's junior year? Did you notice the workout they did the day before their meet? The core of it was 30 x 220 yds.!! Ryun averaged 31 seconds. The next day he won the 2 mile race and broke a course record.

People like Burfoot no longer have editorial say at RW anymore, they've bround in 'new media' wunderkinds from publications like Men's Health to call the shots. It's no longer run by people with a real connection to our sport, that's why they are so happy to contribute to dragging it down. Pushing underprepared people into marathon races by convincing them that they really aren't out of place there was just a start.

OMG that cannot be true!! wrote:

Did you read the week of training in the article for October, 1963 in the middle of Cross Country season, Ryun's junior year? Did you notice the workout they did the day before their meet? The core of it was 30 x 220 yds.!! Ryun averaged 31 seconds. The next day he won the 2 mile race and broke a course record.

UHHH..so much for that typical easy day to freshen up the legs, the day before the race!

Bround? Brought!

girlscoach wrote:

I thought that it was one of the most disrespectful articles I have ever read, about an 84 year old man who suffers from mental impairment from a car accident. I am surprised that the magazine allowed much of the stuff in the article.....he is clearly an elderly man now and not the little dynamo that he once was. I just wish that the writer would be honest why he would slam an old man like that in print...it was a shameful article. And made me sick to my stomach.

Agreed. Is the article online?

Bob Timmons had a lot of variety in the sessions, and he recorded every session for every runner in a book. Everyone knew what they were doing day by day, week by week, through the session. From memory, track work was only twice a week, interspersed with runs around a grass field. Twice a week was a run to a park a mile from the school where longer reps of 880, 1320, or a mile were completed. These were more like steady state cross country semi hard tempo runs up and down hills, than intense runs on the track.

There was a drawing up through the season, first with a build up of volume, then a drawing down to only a few reps, short and sharp at the end. For example, there was build up to a large volume of 440's in mid cross country, lesser at the beginning of track, then only 4x 440 the last week of the season and before big competitions.

Timmons knew exactly what he was doing, and it worked.

There was no other coach that had TWO national record holders in the mile, almost a decade apart and when the mile was the longest event. Bob Timmons was a great coach but more importantly a fine generous man, who touched many lives for the better. I have the greatest of respect for him. It is sad he is suffering and having a hard time of it now.