AR Progression, Men's 5000m

GR wrote:

Because he broke the AR in the 5000m five times and held every American record from 2000m-10,000m and did not reach his potential.

The appreciation of Pre is that there was a great chance of a medal in Montreal in 1976 and faster times, perhaps in the 13:15-range by '76 and perhaps a 27:20-something for 10,000m, as he moved up in distance, not to mention what else he would run over 3000m.

Give the man his due. One of our best ever.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!

jsquire and others, thanks for your hard work in compiling these--they're great.

Any chance anyone can put together a progression of indoor ARs for 3M/5K?

How do you want it formatted? I have the data from 1920 to present.

mcgato wrote:

Part of the reason for the big gap may be that the US predominantly ran the 3 mile during that time. So someone would have to dig out the US 3 mile record progression. Anyone?

without limits wrote:

Maybe Orville would know or some other historian...

I know we had to deal with the depression in the 1930's and WWII in the 40's, but what happened between 1932 and 1950?

Didn't we compete in Berlin in '36 and London in '48?

And it took until 1950 for Fred Wilt to break the record?

14:26.8 Fred Wilt (NY) 29 Jun 1950 Helsinki FIN

14:30 Ralph Hill (CA) 05 Aug 1932 Los Angeles CA/USA

Who's going to beat Bob's (coming up on 13 years) record?

Yes, mcgato, in that time frame , the 2 mile and 3 mile were the norms, especially the two mile. I ran in college in the mid to late 60s, and even the three mile was considered a somewhat "odd" event. The two mile was the most popular distance event (indoors, especially). We occasionally would run a three mile, and now I have to convert my three mile times to metric. Always a little bit of guesswork involved. However,during Olympic years, the NCAA would use 5,000m and 10,000m instead of the usual 3 and 6 mile distances for the National Championship meet. (I placed 3rd in the 1968 NCAA 10,000m, but my medal says 6 Miles!) I'm not sure exactly when everything went to metric in the U.S. , but I'm sure Malmo or some other T&F expert would know. I remember Pre, Ryun, Shorter, Bacheler, and the other greats running 2, 3, 6 miles, instead of their metric equivalents a lot in the late 60s/early 70s. I'm sure the lack of 5,000m opportunities in that time frame accounted for the soft 5,000m U.S. record for such a long time.

jsquire wrote:

How do you want it formatted? I have the data from 1920 to present.

Maybe separate lists for 3M and 5K? Really any format will do--just do whatever makes sense to you. Thanks in advance!

Any chance you could email me the raw data?

Most of it I got from arrs.net

http://arrs.net/RecProg/RP_USAT.htm

Scroll down to the bottom for indoor ARs. I supplied the pre-1940 data from books I have. Pre-1920 stats of this detail are extremely hard to find for an amateur like myself.

+ = time taken en route to 5k

Records in bold, their equivalents at the other distance in italics

3M 5k Athlete Site Date

(14:31.8) 15:05.8 George Bonhag New York 1/25/1912

14:37.6 (15:11.8) Earle Johnson New York 2/1/1922

14:16.0 (14:49.4) Joie "Chesty" Ray New York 2/28/1923

(14:30.0+) 14:54.6 Joie "Chesty" Ray New York 3/7/1923

(14:12.6) 14:45.8 Norman Bright New York 2/27/1937

14:14.8+ 14:39.0 Don Lash New York 2/26/1938

14:05.0+ 14:30.9 Don Lash New York 2/25/1939

13:55.9 (14:28.5) Greg Rice New York 2/24/1940

13:52.3 (14:24.8) Greg Rice New York 3/31/1940

13:51.0 (14:23.4) Greg Rice New York 2/22/1941

13:45.7 (14:17.9) Greg Rice New York 2/28/1942

13:36.9 (14:08.8) Bill Dellinger New York 2/21/1959

13:31.4 (14:03.0) Bob Schul Boston 1/11/1964

13:25.4 (13:56.8) Billy Mills New York 2/19/1965

(13:46.8) 14:19.0 John Lawson New Orleans 12/30/1965

13:16.2 (13:47.3) Tracy Smith Oakland 3/4/1967

13:15.2 (13:46.2) Tracy Smith Toronto 3/1/1968

13:09.8 (13:40.6 George Young Philadelphia 3/1/1969

13:07.2 (13:37.9) Tracy Smith New York 2/23/1973

(13:10.1) 13:40.9 Glenn Herold Louisville KY 2/8/1975

13:06.7 (13:37.4) Bruce Bickford New York 3/1/1980

(12:52.5) 13:22.6 Alberto Salazar New York 2/6/1981

(12:50.5) 13:20.55 Doug Padilla New York 2/21/1982

12:58.9+ (13:26.65) Doug Padilla East Rutherford NJ 2/27/1983

12:57.15 (13:27.5) Doug Padilla New York 2/22/1985

Let's try that again.

3M 5k Athlete Site Date

(14:31.8) 15:05.8 George Bonhag New York 1/25/1912

14:37.6 (15:11.8) Earle Johnson New York 2/1/1922

14:16.0 (14:49.4) Joie "Chesty" Ray New York 2/28/1923

(14:30.0+) 14:54.6 Joie "Chesty" Ray New York 3/7/1923

(14:12.6) 14:45.8 Norman Bright New York 2/27/1937

14:14.8+ 14:39.0 Don Lash New York 2/26/1938

14:05.0+ 14:30.9 Don Lash New York 2/25/1939

13:55.9 (14:28.5) Greg Rice New York 2/24/1940

13:52.3 (14:24.8) Greg Rice New York 3/31/1940

13:51.0 (14:23.4) Greg Rice New York 2/22/1941

13:45.7 (14:17.9) Greg Rice New York 2/28/1942

13:36.9 (14:08.8) Bill Dellinger New York 2/21/1959

13:31.4 (14:03.0) Bob Schul Boston 1/11/1964

13:25.4 (13:56.8) Billy Mills New York 2/19/1965

(13:46.8) 14:19.0 John Lawson New Orleans 12/30/1965

13:16.2 (13:47.3) Tracy Smith Oakland 3/4/1967

13:15.2 (13:46.2) Tracy Smith Toronto 3/1/1968

13:09.8 (13:40.6 George Young Philadelphia 3/1/1969

13:07.2 (13:37.9) Tracy Smith New York 2/23/1973

(13:10.1) 13:40.9 Glenn Herold Louisville KY 2/8/1975

13:06.7 (13:37.4) Bruce Bickford New York 3/1/1980

(12:52.5) 13:22.6 Alberto Salazar New York 2/6/1981

(12:50.5) 13:20.55 Doug Padilla New York 2/21/1982

12:58.9+ (13:26.65) Doug Padilla East Rutherford NJ 2/27/1983

12:57.15 (13:27.5) Doug Padilla New York 2/22/1985

One more thing to check: Lawson's 1965 race might or might not have been indoors. I'm willing to bet that race was part of a Sugar Bowl track meet. The Sugar Bowl game was held outdoors until 1975; I have no idea where the race might have been.