Why did Hall run a "smart race"

Off the Grid wrote:

the conditions in London have everything to do with it

Wanjiru and Hall faced the same conditions in April.

They faced the same conditions today and Wanjiru ran faster than Fukuoka 9 months ago (10-11 degrees).

It is completely naive to think Hall or any but a handful of runners will touch Wanjiru, Gharib etc. Gharib was dead on his feet @ 20km and hung with the lead pack the whole time. That is what is takes...get rich or die trying.

What the hell are you talking about? Hall is almost a minute faster than Gharib and he's shown in each of his 4 marathons to be competitive with the best marathoners in the world. Please don't hang on one result (10th is an excellent one nonetheless) as if this is the best that Hall is capable of, it's not.

The problem seems to be that the east and north Africans finally caught up to the rest of the world in preparing for hot-weather championship marathons. Wanjiru's performance makes him perhaps the best hot-weather runner ever--a reasonably fast time on high-humidity, 85+ degree day. Nobody could have predicted that outcome except Wanjiru and his coach. Renato Canova predicted that "normal" cooler weather would favor the Kenyans and Ethiopians since it would make the race more normal. Yet it was hot and humid, and Wanjiru, the other Kenyans, and Ethiopians ran a "normal" race--they opened with a breakneck pace and for the most part sustained it pretty well.

I do think the strategy would have worked better if Hall had prepared for the heat to the extent that Ritz did. But even so, I think this is the beginning of the era when East and North Africans dominate championship marathons as opposed to dominating every other marathon but the championship ones.

This is a good development though. Letsrunners have complained about how the London marathon and occasionally some other marathons have become more competitive than the Olympic marathon. If this race was any indication, from now on the winner of the Olympic marathon will clearly be able to make the claim that he is the greatest marathoner at that time whether regardless of what happens in London (of course, the Olympic champion will probably have won or almost won London anyway).

My question is, who here has actually run a marathon? Kudos to the person earlier who commented on the pace being "suicidal" at the halfway point. I for one, having gone out too fast in a marathon before and suffered the consequences, was giddy about an hour into today's race because I truly thought that all of the frontrunners were toast - I was convinced that Ritz and Hall were running about right where they needed to be.

Hall and Ritz were thinking the same thing it seems. On this day, however, they were incorrect. A 2:11-2:12 marathon in most Olympics will get you at least a bronze. That was their philosophy, and based on that assumption, they ran accordingly. No one could have possibly predicted a 2:06 marathon, especially in these conditions. I'm not at all disappointed with how either of them ran, personally. Could they have finished higher had they gone out with the lead group? Perhaps. But it seems like they, as well as most of the world, thought the pace would die off.

Bo Diddley wrote:

The problem seems to be that the east and north Africans finally caught up to the rest of the world in preparing for hot-weather championship marathons. Wanjiru's performance makes him perhaps the best hot-weather runner ever--a reasonably fast time on high-humidity, 85+ degree day. .

No need to embellish, lets stick with the facts. The humidity was low, the dew point was 61 degrees. The temperature "only" got up to 81, which is hot enough in and of itself.

Lel beat Wanjiru handily at London. He will probably beat him again in the future, and Wanjiru will probably return the favor.

yeah, real smart if your goal is to NOT compete for a medal.

People forget the past repeats itself, they think there is just one recipe for success-and don't adjust. Wanjiru's 10k is insane-as is his half time. His pedigree is way above Halls at this moment...I think Hall made a mistake not racing one or two races-to fine tune. He did that in the past, and now just trains-doesn't get a feel for competition. You can get away with that in the US but not on the world scene-it was tactical mistake by his coach-he should know better. Hopefully they'll learn from this-his potential is unlimited as is Ritz's-I think Hudson prepared him well-he was what (2'11)? at the trials-so he made up close to 3' on Hall (shape wise). He got two-3 races as tune ups and rolled well. People want medeals first time out? Crazy-did Lel win?

Malmo...you are living proof that charm school is worth EVERY penny....

Olys PR Diff

Samuel Wanjiru 2:06:32 2:05:24 1:08

Jaouad Gharib 2:07:16 2:07:02 0:14

Tsegay Kebede 2:10:00 2:06:40 3:20

Deriba Merga 2:10:21 2:06:38 3:43

Martin Lel 2:10:24 2:05:15 5:09

Viktor Röthlin 2:10:35 2:07:23 3:12

Gashaw Asfaw 2:10:52 2:08:03 2:49

Yared Asmerom 2:11:11 2:08:34 2:37

Ritz 2:11:59 2:11:07 0:52

Ryan Hall 2:12:33 2:06:17 6:16

Table might not be clear, but it compares Olympic times w/ PRs, and difference, for top 10. Hall was by far the slowest - Martin Lel was next, and he looked like he had been dragged from a truck when he finished. The next slowest compared to PR was Goumri @ 9:03 and he ran 2:15

Ritz ran w/ the man "Most Likely to get a Bronze from the Stragglers" - Rothlin. Hall had other ideas...

If Hall went out in 1:04:27, that would indicate he was shooting for 2:08-2:09. If he ran that time, he would have gotten a bronze medal. Out of the 5 leaders, 3 cracked badly. They lost almost 4 minutes in the last 5 miles. It turned out that 1:04:27 was too fast a start for Hall on this day though.

As for Gharib, didn't the announcers realize he was only falling off the pace when he was taking in fluids? By slowing down, he probably got more fluids in and that is what kept him in contention.

It didn't matter what Hall did; he was out of his element in this race. If he went with Wanjiru, he probably would have been dropped so hard that he couldn't finish. Just in over his head. Wanjiru ran 2:06:32 in that heat and humidity; Hall just cannot run that fast.

I know people are going to jump all over this and give me heck about not being able to run as fast as Hall, etc., but I do play other sports at high levels and I think that even my former racing experience relates enough to this.....

This is the Olympics....in high school I would never have dreamed of going out at some goal pace to set a P.R. at the state meet (big whoop)...I went out with the leaders for as long as I could to try to compete because that is what that meet is about, crowning a champion....yes I died a horrible death the last lap of both my mile and two mile races and I will never ever regret that because I can go run a time trial anytime I want but championship meets only come around every once in a blue moon....when you get the opportunity you run to win---not for third or top ten or any other stupid rationalized position. Run to win, period. It is a race with no prize money, which very few people really even care about, but which is used to determine the best marathoner in the world. It is Wanjiru, he just killed everyone and our guys didn't even try to run with him. I personally would much rathr see Hall DNF halfway than run like a turd---probably he does die for going out too hard, then again you neer know in running when the next breakthrough comes and maybe it could have been today

The point is Americans aren't going to be successful in the marathon until they think like champions...no amount of training at any pace earns you the right to win a championship....you have to go out and run your body into the ground, covering any alteration of pace or tactic someone throws at you, and then when you are first, you have earned it.....

In my opinion this is no different than the general entitlement/complacency theme in our country...you have to want it, you have to work for it, and then you have to DO it

In short Ryan Hall and anyone else who did this is a pansy for running for a bronze at the Olympics and I don't care what witty comebacks you have that is just true---London or New York is the place to run for third and a little bit of cash....at the Olympics you run for gold no matter how unlikely or you shouldn't be there

I agree with all of this. But if Hall's plan had worked and he had medaled. He would have been called a genius.

short guys do well in hot weather. wanjiru and kebede are both under 5'4".

ryan hall didn't train in the heat and he's too big.

the winner of the atlanta games marathon was about 5' tall. short guys, physiologically, have an advantage in hot weather.

I suggest running smart. Deena and Meb get a whole lot more out of their Olympic medals than they would have if they had hammered from the start and finished way back, if at all. Agreed?

You remind me of a guy from the NY Times who insisted that Lance Armstrong, despite accounts of half-assed training leading up to his first marathon at New York, would run at least 2:19 because, "he's a champion and he's not going to get beat by a woman." This isn't something you simply will yourself into. If you get into the Olympic 5000m final and you're personal best in the mile is 4:00, and Bekele starts clipping 60.5s, are you going to try to keep up until you hit that 4:02 first mile, and then get shot out the back and end up struggling to break 16min? Nick Willis knew he didn't have the wheels for Ramzi, and Kiprop looked a cut above the rest. So he ran intelligently and got himself a medal and a medal in the Olympic 1500m will pay dividends for the rest of his life. Far more than Famiglietti's antics. You have to keep in mind that there's a reason that they hand out silver and bronze and not just gold medals. As in that 1500m, to all of us in the stadium, the race for bronze was far more engaging than what was going on for the gold, given Ramzi's choice of coaches. There were about five or six guys all running for one medal and 91,000 people were on their feet when Willis stormed through the last 50m to hold off Baala. It was incredible.

Running is a sport that tests our physical limits. Certainly, the will to push one's self is a major factor and there have been phenomenal break throughs recorded at major championships before. But Hall and Ritz probably finished as best they could given the conditions. Hall in particular has blown up in hot conditions before and the fact that he survived and made the top 10 is impressive. Only the USA, Kenya and Ethiopia put two men in the top 10 (Ethiopia had all three). That's good company.

Note that, although Hall's half split was 2:09 pace, his first 10k was 40s faster than the second. I think it ended up being the worst of both worlds for Hall - he had no contact with the leaders, but he also didn't have great pacing.

Looking back at it, I definitely wish Hall had gone with the leaders. Early in the race, though, it seemed like he was doing the right thing. It's hard to blame him for not wanting to run 2:05 pace in a hot, championship race. Who knew Wanjiru was that good?

chino wrote:

Only the USA, Kenya and Ethiopia put two men in the top 10 (Ethiopia had all three). That's good company.

Each country can only send 3 people, so this doesn't mean anything - if entries were capped at 10, Kenya and Ethiopia would have 15 in the top 25, Japan 5, and the rest of the world the rest....

Martin Lel had a BAD day and finished 5th...and still kicked all other finishers' asses.

the best the US could do was 2:11/2:12....that is simply the best they could come up with. It will not win medals. It is good...but not good enough for a medal. That is totally unrealistic.

Lorenzo St. Dubois wrote:

chino wrote:

Only the USA, Kenya and Ethiopia put two men in the top 10 (Ethiopia had all three). That\'s good company.

Each country can only send 3 people, so this doesn\'t mean anything - if entries were capped at 10, Kenya and Ethiopia would have 15 in the top 25, Japan 5, and the rest of the world the rest....

Martin Lel had a BAD day and finished 5th...and still kicked all other finishers\' asses.

the best the US could do was 2:11/2:12....that is simply the best they could come up with. It will not win medals. It is good...but not good enough for a medal. That is totally unrealistic.

True, if there were unlimited entries, Ethiopia and Kenya would have had many more finishers. But that does not change the fact that in this race only Ethiopia, Kenya, and the USA had two top-ten finishers.

It's not as though by uncapping the race there would be another country besides Kenya and Ethiopia that could place two runners in before Hall and Ritzenhein.

There's only been 2 Olympics in history where 2:11 would not get you a medal.

the best the US could do was 2:11/2:12....that is simply the best they could come up with. It will not win medals. It is good...but not good enough for a medal. That is totally unrealistic.

lohalloran wrote:

He ran like a typical American and got nothing out of it.

I love Hall but he really blew it today. Ritz was a surprise but 10th is still pretty awful.

Yea, Hall ran like a typical american today (sarcasm). 10th in the olympics, how awful. there was nothing ordinary or "typical" about what the americans did in that race. that was special and worthy of praise. they were super-prepared, fit and tough.

Don't you think that it's a bit silly to say that "[planning on winning a medal] is totally unrealistic" is a little off, considering the US won silver and bronze last time around? And in a fairly hot, humid environment as well?