chicago marathon -- hansons times anomalies (sell & rosario)

as great as it would be to have this guy in the trials, if he ran 2:22:01 then he missed the standard. it's tough and it sucks, but the standard must apply to everyone.

like someone said earlier, the sub 4:00 mile group doesn't include those who ran "just over 4 minutes".

ok so a guy that starts 1:00 back and run 2:22:30 gun time is out??? NO! his chip time was sub 2:22:00 so wtf is the argument? this is stupid

USATF uses gun times. if you want to know what everyone's gun time was, then look up the pictures of that person at marathonfoto.com. also, runmichigan.com has some pics too. there should be no discrepancy, as my watch matched up with the gun time at chicago. oh, and the money is handed out based on gun time because that is what the USATF uses.

Just because you don't like it and just because you want to piss in my ear doesn't change a damn thing. USATF rules require that qualifying is based on gun time. Period. Or to put it another way, as my dear old mother used to tell me, and I quote "Wish in one hand and shit in the other, see which gets filled first".

so because he is your buddy he should be in? you're not thinking rationally. the same applies to sell. the guy should not get his way to the trials paid because he did not hit the A qualifier. it really sucks because they were both so close. Close is just that though..close! not under. I guess gun times are official until a program like Hansons hold your hands and get things changed.

dude, this has nothing to do with anyone's buddy, so you can get off that tip immediately. rather, this is a simple exercise in logic; rules aren't inherently logical just because they are written down on a piece of paper somewhere. the fact of the matter is that the chip time is a more accurate representation of a runner's performance than gun time under the current race format. ben rosario ran UNDER the trials B standard according to chip-time. He and anyone else in a similar situation should obviously be granted the right to compete on Feb. 7th. Giving bonuses out according to gun-times is understandable, but keeping someone from competing at the trials based on this highly insensitive guage of performance constitutes mental incompetence in my opinion. what could be more retarded and/or more subversive in regard to developing distance running talent in this country?

USATF doesn't care about chip time. Don't you get it?

i think the argument is that their times seemed to have been changed by the race, while no onee else's in the race have been.

the guys are in the fastest marathon in the world, they have great pacers to race with, and an excellent starting position. it doesn't seem to me that anyone was trying to hold back america's distance talents, but merely the opposite of getting the greatest result possible for them. and that they did, so let's not gift wrap another two or three seconds to these guys.

but once again, your error is that they use gun times and hansons wants to lower both runners' gun times.

Come on. You know that doesn't make any sense. Here's one example: You're running a 1500m. The qualifying time for nationals (hypothetically) is 3:41.9. You start in the back row (worth a few hundreths). You run in lane two for a few turns (worth another few hundreth's). You're time at the line is 3:42.0. Did you run 1500m in 3:41.9? Probably. Do you qualify? Of course not.

If you're going to have a standard, make it apply equally to everyone. Here, the standard is 2:22:00 gun time, not chip time. Going into the race, we all knew that gun time counted, not chip time. So, if you ran 2:22:01 gun time, you didn't qualify. If the USATF or the Chicago Marathon is going to make exceptions, they should outline the criteria on which those exceptions are based. If they maintain that they can exercise their "discretion" under certain circumstances, let us know what those circumstances are. Changing times after the fact is dishonest and wrong.

Bottome line: Apply the same standard across the board. If I were king for a day, Rosario would get in, and Miles and Miles would get in. That the former makes it, and the latter doesn't is wrong.

keith hanson posts on here occasionally..i'd like to see what he says/admits in this case, or how he justifies it. i think more information might be needed for everyone before we judge the situation.

It's weird, a former teammate of mine ran Chicago. When I picked him up at the airport the next day (Oct. 13, I believe), he mentioned that Rosario (all 3 of us ran in the same college conference) had qualified. So apparently my training parter is in on the conspircay, too; in fact, he's so deep in it that he knew about it a month before it happened!

More information? Why murky the waters with facts? Off with their heads!

To whoever it was that mentioned the running start thing was ridiculous, yes it is, but that is why it does not count for records or qualifying purposes. And yes, it is gun time that counts for qualifying purposes.

Here is the bottom line. The results are clear, and a picture is evidence of that. The question is, why is it that (if there is a picture showing their finishes) the times miraculously changed? And we are not talking about a day or so later but two months!

As far as I understand there are appeals to get in the marathon, as Miles and Miles and other close finishers will most likely do. You know those two are not the only ones on the bubble. They should have to go through the same process as everyone else. Most likely the appeal would be approved, seemed reasonable enough to me. My problem is that someone fudged the results to benefit certain people. This no matter if it is Hanson?s, your friend, your mom or anyone else isn't right. Next time might as well make the course 2 seconds short and benefit us all!

And one last thing to the watchful eye of the original letsrun poster. You have too much time on your hands to be cross referencing results 2 months later. God damn man.

I crossed the start at Berlin one second behind Tergat. I crossed the finish at Berlin one second behind Tergat. So I guess my chip time would be 2:04:55 (WR).

there is no real issue here wrote:

look, dudes. rosario ran the standard. chip times count, gun times can suck my balls.

Not exactly... USATF requires gun times... chip times do NOT count toward trials qualifying.

they counted for him, was anyone else that close??? pretty sure if so they would be in as well.

Seems like there was someone almost that close: Miles and Miles in 2:22:03. He has not, however, been allowed into the trials. If you don't think it's the same thing, then you must think 2 seconds is a big deal. But if 2 seconds is a big deal between 2:22:03 and 2:22:01 (Miles and Miles to Rosario), then why isn't 2 seconds just as big a deal when it's the difference between 2:22:01 and 2:21:59 (Rosario and qualifying)?

It's simply indefensible.

Here is another guy who could use 2 seconds:

2003 National marathon champs

14) Rick Fuller, OR 2:22:02*