Spivey better than Webb

HAHAHA. Right now *I* am better than Webb, taking the average of our last two races. Because I started them.

Vote for SS...

As someone already pointed out, very gracious of you to recognize a competitor..

VERY close -- nearly identical, but you are convincing...SS was such a workhorse, in additional to his extreme talent and grueling training (although no better or harder than yours) his durability during his peek years is amazing...he seemed to stay on his feet no matter what. I read in his 1982 training log that he raced 43 times the year he ran 3:47! Averaging 77 miles per week the entire year, plus constant traveling -- two trips to New Zealand that year. His bones must have been made of steel.

I would still point out that you beat him solidly at both the 84 olympics and 87 worlds (actually i dont know if he was in that race). Perhaps he was a bit passed his prime but that's life. He got hosed out of the 80 Olympics (which even he would have to admit was loaded and he would have had a hard time medalling) and you got hosed out of 1988 Olympics (in a race that you absolutely could have won given your fitness post Trials). Given SS the nod for the career, but I will still give you the nod for Championship competition.

Hate to bring up the woulda couldas but it would have been great to see you in that 1988 Olympic Final race. Getting dinged up before the trials was definately one of the more clear drawbacks of the US Trials system (which I believe in 99% of the time), but Rono pushing the last 700m was a speed endurance race that was set up for you. Oh well - that's middle distance racing...

Read somewhere that you were moving to Nashville to coach at Vanderbilt...dont know if that is still on or not?

Jim,

Are you going to be in Naperville/Wheaton area next weekend? You should come to Al's picnic on Saturday. I'm sure there's plenty of other alums that would be glad to see you as well.

Hey Jim,

I was a year behind you at a HS not far from Bensonville. During your professional career, I used to brag to folks that "I raced against him. Well actually, I raced far behind him".

I have a vague recollection of running a two-mile indoors at Fenton on what was something like a 15 lap/mile track. Fortunately, I have no recollection of how many times you lapped me. Is my memory correct on that track? If so, any stories to tell on racing in a circle?

I'd also be interested in hearing about your decision to drop down to the 880 your senior year when Tom Graves was so stong in the mile/2-mile.

Thanks for spending time here.

Bob

I am speaking at the Midwest Distance clinic on Saturday at N.Central college:

North Central College is hosting the 2008 Midwest Distance Summit on Saturday, August 9th.

The event will include speakers from the Big-10, an Olympian, and successful high school coaches, and a physical therapist.

Our target audience will be cross country/distance coaches from all levels.

The event has drawn between 75-100 coaches. We hope to keep have a great turn out this year!

www.midwestdistancesummit.com

js

I think our home track was 13 laps per mile, or 26 for 2 miles. Hard surface as well. That would make the mile relay the 4x3.25 laps.

Not as bad as the Lake Park HS track, as it was an octagon track with posts on each corner.

js

Volunteer asst. coach at N. Central College in Naperville, Illinois 1996-97.

Coached at U of Chicago (D3) 1997-2001

At Vanderbilt 2001-2005

Left January of 2006 to come on board with ASICS, to help colleges and high schools purchase product through a retailer of the coach's choice. 4 others do what I do as well now.

Coaching adults in my running club, which was started in 1990 - JSRC.

www.jimspivey.com

Also help coaches/athletes at the HS level, and a few post college runners.

js

Tom Graves:

Sophomore year: 5th in State CC

2 mile champion, 9:00 y

Junior year: State Champ, 14:08 CC

2 mile champion: 8:52 y

Mile runner-up: 4:08 y

90+ degree day

Senior year: State Champ, 13:56.6 XC

2 mile and mile champ - ran to win, not for time

I never ran for a team until my sophomore year of high school I had run 6:48 for the mile in gym class as a freshmen, but did not go out for Cross - played basketball. As a sophomore, decided to go out for the team when Coach John Kurtz asked me for a 2nd time in before gym class started. Next day ran 5:45 in gym class.

Practiced with the team on Thursday and Friday by running 2 miles each day, then raced at the Warren Invite on Saturay in NBA low tops - 3 miles, 19:05 for 30th place in the open race.

One week later, raced at the Du Page county meet in Glen Ellyn, 27th place 17:27, in the sophomore race. Three days later we raced are rival high school Lake Park (Lance Murphy, a former JSRC alum, is the coach there and has done a great job), ran 16:48 for 3 miles for 4th in the Varsity race. We lost by 1 point as a team.

Last race of the season, Conference meet, ran 15:41 for 3 miles for 3rd at the Varsity level.

In outdoor track, I ran 9:21.7yards, while as you can see, Tom was well ahead.

I was 2nd as a junior in Cross, 14:16 and 2nd as a senior, 14:00. Coach Kurtz put me in more 880's indoors, and I think I was ranked 9th in the country indoors for the 880. I ran 49.7 for 440y at the Conference meet, and came back 8 minutes later to run 4:13.9 for the mile, both PR's.

I think with the speed I showed, and fun it was to race at different distances, Coach K decided I would run the 880. Ran 1:50.26, fastest time in the country for a high school runner.

Next week, won the 2 mile in 9:11.7 at the Quad State meet (Indiana, Illinois, Michigan and Ohio) and was the 2nd leg on the 4x880 winning team (John Sullivan, Maurice Street and Tracey Cahill were team members). It was a very hot day, and Brad Rowe from Indiana was in the race - thinking he ran sub 9 that year, went on to Princeton.

Next week at the International Prep Invitational, ran 4:06.2 mile (61-62-63-60) to win and PR.

Tom beat me in the NCAA cross-country meet in 1978, 13th place to my 15th place (Rudy Chapa was inbetween us, now his son Joquium runs for Oregon or recently graduated). As a sophomore, finally placed ahead of Tom at NCAA cross nationals - 21st to 23rd. I think Alan Scharsu was 25th, a stud from Ohio how went on to Penn State, same year as Tom and I.

The speed I developed in HS never left me, and really helped me to change gears in college and post college.

js

Jim,

I ran sub 1:50 and nearly sub 4 in highschool. your last line i think reminded me of something my coach always said at the time...

"The speed I developed in HS never left me, and really helped me to change gears in college and post college."

we had no indoor facility, cold winters and no rubberized track, so my coach was really cautious.most of our speed workouts were in ankle deep sand dunes.

My question is how much speed work would you do with a 15, 16, 17 year old? would you sacrifice a year or two with long term development in mind? at the time i was running the odd 400 even though i was a 1:51/1:52 800 guy clearly moving up to the 1500. i wonder if i'd spent another year working on that speed if i could have been a 1:46/1:47 guy which would have helped tremendously, especially in the tactical championship races that seem to dominate.

I think I have smoked cigarettes with OldSub4 in the Tombs.

Re: Webb - my thoughts exactly...

"was a breath away from the World Record when he ran his 3:47"

I'm too lazy to you-tube it, but IRC he went around Walker on the bend, which cost him the WR....

Jim,

I am a Bloomingtonian -- just wondering what the Long Kinser Loop is?

Thanks,

Jon

Probably was me at the Tombs....

old sub 4 is it true that you can become an elite runner by reading track and field news?

Absolutely its all about reading T&FN...if I had run when the internet was working I would have gone 1:42.

In reminescing about old milers, I have to bring up joey falcon as one of the stranger stories....3;49, wins oslo, and then flat out never has the desire to run anymore. I hear he is happy, a cop living in missouri I think...

Question will be how fast does wheatley go...I think if he stays healthy he can be sub 144 and sub 335 in college in the next 2 years. I think he has to be full time to get faster than that.Other than that there is a blackhole after legat and webb. We are still psyched with 335 guys making the team, but they can't get out of the semi rounds in that kind of shape. Who else are potential 330-331 guys out there?

Sorry for the unsolicited rant....

Ps the 800m at the trials was a fantastic race and event, but the conditions were perfect and 145 high made the team. In 92 143 did not make the team, and even then we only had gray in the olympic final. I can't wait until wariner moves up!

"3;49, wins oslo, and then flat out never has the desire to run anymore. I hear he is happy, a cop living in missouri I think..."

-he is extremely happy. remarried- awesome gal. detective in bentonville and coach of their cross team. is in arkansas, not missouri. if you think that he "never had the desire to run anymore" after oslo, you're kidding yourself.

Maybe the answer to this threads main premise will be revealed by mid next decade. Right now Spivey has a slight edge.

Last year Webb looked like the next Jim Ryun and this year he looks like Micheal Stember, or any other "very good" sub 4 minute miler. How could Webb lose 9 seconds of mile speed in one year!

In 2008 Webb is just another miler.

Perhaps Spivey could give some insight into Webb's problems this year. He was dead on predicting his first World Championship finals performance.

Saw J.Spivey at Big Ten Cross in East Lansing decades ago.

Think it was the conference meet, (perhaps regionals).

Brian Diemer was hanging tough in 2nd until the last 1/2 mile when the Spivey kick took over for the win.

What a closer!

Jim Spivey wrote:

By the bye - wanted to add:

Took my 3 boys (17, 14, 9) over to Wheaton college to play soccer for 40 mins. Also brought along a pair of ASICS Thunder spikes, with my spike orthotics.

I had been feeling better running of late (20:08 5k two weeks ago), and sprinting for the soccer ball had felt fluid - like the old days. I wanted to show the boys what it looks like to float a fast 400m on the track.

Spiked up, and then tripped and almost fell when I walked in my spikes. What a dork.

js

LOL

I am now 53. Put the 20 year old NIKE Zooms on once a year at the Dartmouth relays for a Masters 800m.

2:34.

I have a vague memory of your running a 12k road race in July 83, just outside Chicago. Is that correct?

Keep the posts coming, great stuff, good insights.

Bob Hodge