Expensive races

KCTrack wrote:

by the way my first road race was a four miler...we went 2 miles up and turned around a cone and headed back...I lost a trophy by one place as they only gave out three with no age group awards...cost $5...

That, my friend, is the way racing should be. It's obvious that the more "stuff" you involve, the more it costs. What I'm saying is that the "stuff" isn't needed. You're right about certain people demanding t-shirts and all the other extreanious items. I'm saying that I appreciate the races that cut out the needless stuff and just focus on putting on a good race. That, after all, is what the sport is supposed to be about...racing.

Bump

I too am against expensive races, but will run them if the prize is worth more than the entry fee.

I'm an RD for an XC race. Entry fee is $10 pre-reg or $15 race day. There are no t-shirts or awards (other than $1,000 in prize money). We usually get about 250-300 runners, which is just fine. We get about $4,000 in entry fees, pay out $1,000 in prize money, spend about $1500 in permit fees, USATF sanction fee, insurance, etc., and make anout $1,500 for our club. All of the volunteers, timers, and scoring is done by club members.

Nice and simple.

I think those races are extremely important and fun to race in but you put that same race on the roads and you lose money as the police take the other $1500 plus a little...maybe that is not the way it is in your area but here the police have found a way to make extra $$ (and I have to admit I can't blame them) and they take advantage of it...

My local road runners club has over 2 dozen club races that cost $1 for members ($5 for non-members). I highly doubt that we're unusual.

Boston now costs a huge amount -- in 1973 it was $2, I think, plus $1 if you needed the bus out to Hopkinton. But they didn't use to close the course to traffic, and they didn't need 200 yards of pre-race port-a-johns either. Before you wax nostalgic about the "good old days", don't forget the poor treatment we used to get while we ran -- I was yelled at, spit at, and run off the road, but now no one even looks twice.

Bump

Why hasn't GBF (Galloway's Biggest Fan) joined in this conversation? Something just seems to be missing.

You know what I think on this. Plus, you never e-mailed me, punk.

Galloway still sucks for all the normal reasons.

Bump

Being on the other end of racing, i can attest to the hassle that race day entry causes. Not only can you not guage how many shirts you need, you don't know about supplies, volunteers etc, you have to deal with data entry on race day and if you are using chip timing, you have to have this all completed before the gun goes off.

As a runner, i think it sticks to charge more but if you ever get the chance to be responsible for making sure a race comes off smoothly, i guarantee you that you will want to hammer the guys who enter at the last minute.

I also think that you pay more now and get less...this makes me chuckle (directly quoted from a race application with a $40 late entry fee)...

"there is no race-day awards ceremony. personalized awards are produced and mailed only by request. if you would like an award please complete an award request race form".

who is going to go up and *ask* for an award if it is not monetary!!

flip sider wrote:

I also think that you pay more now and get less...this makes me chuckle (directly quoted from a race application with a $40 late entry fee)...

"there is no race-day awards ceremony. personalized awards are produced and mailed only by request. if you would like an award please complete an award request race form".

who is going to go up and *ask* for an award if it is not monetary!!

That is truly sad. Just a way for them to give out as few awards as possible, as only a real hoser would fill out a request form for an award.

I understand the late registration fee being a couple of dollars higher. I often register late to save myself the hastle of mailing in an entry early, and it saves me the few times something came up (injury, other committments, ect.) and I was unable to run the race.

Now, back to the original intent of this thread: Higher entry fees are yet another example of the RW/Galloway/Penguin movement destroying, little by little, a great sport.

Can I get a testimonial from GBF?

This sounds a bit like the Clarksburg 30k near Sacramento did (and maybe still does) and frankly it is great. The guys up front don't generally want to wait for a looong time until the woman's over 70 winner comes in, and the awards ceremony comes off a little pathetic with no one but awards winners loitering around not paying attanetion to the announcer. So they post results immediately, if you've won something in your age group, you fill out a form and six weeks a later a nice personalized (name, date, prize, event, time) award comes in the mail. Sure its an inexpensive plaque but the local association pays individual and team prize money to boot.

Galloway in particular has stressed finishing over racing. If the intent is just to finish rather than race, undoubtedly the focus has just shifted to a secondary goal. It's an easy slippery slope from there to wanting more food as you walk, wanting more pap bands as you walk, wanting t-shirts, medals, anything that says YOU DID IT. These of course, are not for free, but they are considered necessities for most of the Gallow-followers.

I don't blame the Gallow-walkers. They have little historical perspective beyond last month's first race. So, they think that all the hoopla makes for a better race and the prices don't seem so high because they have no basis for comparison. If they knew that they could get all the best that a race has to offer (the race itself) for a fraction of the cost, then they probbaly wouldn't be so thrilled with $25 5Ks or $60 Half-Marathons, either.

I put on a $5 race in the summer that draws about 200. The awards are modest. But, the course, the mile marks, the timing (even though it's not chip (gasp)), and the running is all good.

Galloway sucks. That is true.

GBF, Well said! The people are not to blame, they simply do not know any better. Many younger middle of the pack runners are also in the same boat. Many have not seen the accurate, well-run, efficient, no-frills RACES. They too have been victims of the "Let's make a profit" groups making racing secondary to the party scene and commitment to attract numbers which favor non-racers including walkers, finishers, etc. It is a shame some of these people simply don't know that much better services for a more reasonable entry fee is out there.

i agree that awards ceremonies are long and drawn out but how about giving out the top prizes when people cross the finish line or as winners become known? but having to ask for an award just seems wrong.

by definition- an award isn't something that is asked for, it's given.

In the case of Clarksburg the "top prizes" (i.e., the money) has to come through the association, which has to verify good standing, among other things. The request form for the personalized plaques makes perfect sense when you consider that they are taking the time to engrave your name (which they can't know in advance) and will incur non-trivial expense to mail the thing in protective packaging. The form makes sure they have your name and mailing address right. Out of innumerable "awards" in decades of racing, the ones from Clarksburg are among my very few keepers.

What kills me is the NYRRC....they OWN Central Park, and have the highest entry fees anywhere. I've seen them have race entry fees as high as $35 for a 5K for non-members, WITHOUT a t-shirt guaranteed. Small town race, having to shut streets, get cops, etc....okay, MAYBE it's justified somewhere/somehow. But the NY Road Runners are a total rip-off.

This summer I began to consider the amount of money I spend on races and it gets pretty frustrating. So i started thinking that low key trail and xc races in a local park or the univ. xc course would be fun. I could find 20-30 real runners who want to race, and thats it. Even in the races with 500 runners only the top 20-30 are really racing, so why not just put up signs for a free race. 5 weeks in a row, each week a different runner marks off a course with electrical flags, who cares about the distance- on a trail its all about racing. Another runner brings a cooler of beer for after the race. Since its not on the roads no permits. The course marking flags could be set up in an hour, the race takes thirty minutes, take flags down in 45 minutes, thats a race in about 2 hours. The enjoyment of racing without the b.s. or the common race.

Take a look at this:

http://www.ci.anchorage.ak.us/parks/tuesday.cfm

It's sounds like what you are proposing... cheap and fun. The courses are not accurately measured and sometimes people run off course and the results get bungled every once in a while, but no one cares... we race each other every week and everyone that cares knows what happened. I think that accurate courses are really not necessary for a footrace unless you are going for PR's or records or qualifiers or that sort of thing. The way it is with this race series is that competition is the most important thing... who you beat is more important than your time. Some weeks people hammer from the start, other weeks it starts out at an easy pace. We all get into pretty good shape by the end of the series. The level of competition is good enough for me at least... the guy who won the last race is in sub-15 5K shape.

Another great thing here is orienteering. A club membership with a season pass is only $30 for about two dozen events here (

http://www.alaska.net/~oalaska/

) and single events are $4 without a membership or $3 with a $5 membership. Let's see that's the same price for 22-23 events as a single somewhat expensive road race. The club is non-profit and tries its best to keep prices down. I did all the events... it's great running around in the woods for an hour or two each week all summer. The work put into setting up a course each week is a lot more than it takes to set up a simple trail race like the Tuesday night race series, but it's all volunteer work. The money that the club has is spent on making and updating maps.