Regina Jacobs -- outstanding role model

Let me get this straight:

You say, "Whether she took TXQ or whatever, and whether the rest of you take IBU or Sudafed or Aspirin or drink coffee or whatever, is of no consequence or importance to me."

So the fact that I drink coffee and occasionally take Advil for my aching Masters muscles is equivalent to Regina taking a banned performance-enhancing steroid and by fraud depriving other athletes of medals, places on championship teams, money, and acclaim?

Wow!

Just for argument's sake, here's my take:

Cheating to achieve success does not define a role model.

Cheating to achieve success at others' expense defines the very worst of both the human and athletic spirit.

Cheating in a way that necessitates other athletes putting their health and lives at risk in order to be competitive--by forcing them to join the drug ranks or fall by the wayside--is both selfish and sadistic.

But hey, I drink coffee, so what do I know?

Every time I've seen Regina run she has shown the upmost professionalism and fair play, and has NEVER interfered with another runner.

Heck in the WC she ran in the second lane most all of the way.

Contrast that with SFH who is constantly elbowing other runners with they try to pass her, and numerous of the rest of you who are always complaining about genetics or altitude or skin color as a disparagement of those who are more intelligent and train harder than you do.

If you want to call everyone who uses drugs a cheat, even with sustances NOT ON ANY BANNED LIST -- then look in the mirror first.

While you're doing that, open your medicine cabinets and flush the contents down the toilet. I'm sure you'll not want to be taking any that stuff, now that you're not a cheat any more. Or are you?

I am not going to say anything about Radcliffe cause it would probably get me banned again (double standards). However, since asked, I feel she has indeed taken unfair advantage of other runners. She has had some of them banned from competitions and endeavored to have Olga Yegorova banned from the sport, even though she has passed every test!

That is certainly interfering with the performance of others.

And that is why I consider Paula Radcliffe a drug cheat, whether or not she is taking any other drugs besides those she's admitted to.

For clarification, however, I have NO INTEREST IN DRUGS.

I think the best thing for the sport would be to ban everyone, and start over with a world championships where no one can compete unless they've been banned from taking drugs.

Then maybe finally we'll have drugs out of the sport for good.

All this hypocrisy about drugs does no one any good.

It's performance and achievement that counts.

Greg in Toronto wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, Jacobs made several national teams, and in the process took national team spots from other competitors. I'm quite sure that those other runners would consider this "interference".

I'm sure SFH considers it so and, since Regina has managed to get around her elbows, has said so.

But winning competitions is the objective.

And this is what Regina has done.

I've never heard her talk about drugs or try to keep another competitor from competing. Everyone has had a chance to run in the same races as her. And she treats every other runner with fairness and respect.

So, she is smart, and she's black, and she's a woman.

Obviously a number of you have a few problems with that.

Look, Dunes Runner defended the Russian after she got off on a technicality, so it should not be surprising to see him/her/it defend Regina. Now of course we only have the A sample of RJ, but besides that factor, I can't see why anyone would defend her. I guess because she has some good qualities. Dunes, no one said she is the worst human who ever lived. No, just a cheater, plain and simple. She broke the rules and is paying for it (if B is positive too).

Here is a satire of Dunes' reasoning:

Hitler should be admired because he had charisma, was nice to some of his family & friends and gave Germans pride (for awhile). Hey, I too am SURE he had some good qualities.

The 9/11 suicide bombers had conviction and probably treated fellow suicide bombers with respect. Some I am sure were good sons to their parents. They also probably had some "positive" qualities.

I could go on and on. The point: EVERYONE has at least one admirable quality I am sure (even Dunes Runner probably does). Now fine, Regina is not a murderer or blackspot of mankind, like my above examples, but she appears to be a cheater. She should be condemned for it. The nature of being famous is that while you will often receive praise & adulation & ass-kissing way beyond what your accomplishments probably truly deserve, you also may receive condemnation above what you deserve (look at Vanilla Ice or Manilli Vanilli). Cheating at running in the big scheme of things of the world is probably not such a horrible crime. But in sport, it is the biggest offense. She has had her ass-kissed repeatedly (and enjoy every second of it), so now it is the time for her to get her ass kicked! What comes around, goes around?.that is how life, especially for famous people, often works.

Condy Rice is smart and black and a women...and a Stanford Alum too as it happens. I have no problems with her.

I have a problem with Regina Jacobs because shes a liar and a cheat and a real sanctimonious asshole too.

If I see Regina at another track meet I'll beat that cheater down with a rubber hose.

There is no doubt that she is done, and that she has done something that has given her an unfair advantage. All dunes runner is saying is that he has admired her as an athlete, and so have I, and we have not always judged her on her marketability, but on her as an athlete, the way she runs, etc..

No one here can say if she's been on anything for just 1 year or possibly more - she has never tested positive for anything until now.

and after the Worlds that she won a silver medal - if she basted Sonia O'Sullivan in the tunnel - I can hardly fault her for that. That girl needed a beatin' for what she did to Regina in that race. Poor sportsmanship was on the part of O'Sullivan.

ttc wrote:

Every time her competitors congratulate her on a winning race, she doesn't look at them and acts very annoyed.

I've not seen that happen but even if it did she has no obligation to be friends with anyone in particular. She treats other runners fairly on the track and doesn't interfer with anyone's right to compete, and that's what counts.

In addition, I don't think that the 4th place finishers at the 2000, 2001 and 2003 USATF trials and nationals would agree either.

Sour grapes. See my 2nd message on this thread.

SoCalPete wrote:

So the fact that I drink coffee and occasionally take Advil for my aching Masters muscles is equivalent to Regina taking a banned performance-enhancing steroid

That's right. You're a druggie, Pete. : )

And I thought whatever she supposedly took was not banned.

and by fraud depriving other athletes of medals, places on championship teams, money, and acclaim?

Did any of those other runners finish ahead of her?

If a runner finished last and was awarded first [shades of Frank Shorter] that would most certainly be fraudulent.

However there is no crime in winning a race.

I understand you're from America, but the objective IS to finish the race first.

Just for argument's sake, here's my take:

Cheating to achieve success does not define a role model.

Then why do you take drugs?

Kind of hypocritical aren't you?

It's either "okay" or it isn't.

To clarify AGAIN I don't care what you take.

I'm interested in performance and achievement.

ahh - fair enough now I get it Dunes Runner - you're a cock smoker - that explains alot.

Save your race card for another day you dumbass - that cheating bitch Regina FINALLY got hers - its to do with CHEATING - pure and simple - nothing about race or role models - shes a cheat and you know what I really hope this comes back to bite her in years to come when she goes to her regular GP with heart problems, hormone problems and whatever other legacies her years of steroid abuse will ravage upon her body.

what goes around comes around -

and in case you're too stupid to realise it - we're talking BANNED DRUGS - not drugs per se - surely even you and not so stupid as to not recognise the difference here

Oh yes, I forgot there were other parts to Dunes¡¦ ¡§argument¡¨-

* since THG was not officially on the banned list, it should be considered OK.

Bullshit. Read the legalese of the Banned Substance rules. It clearly states that if there is a substance, not yet known to the testers, but it is similar to banned substances, then it is illegal to take and OK to test for it. That is how the Russian female skiers and German(skied for Spain) male skier got busted at the winter Olympics. They were taking something similar to EPO, but slightly different. They got busted anyway! It is the same thing with this. THG (just because YOU don¡¦t anything about it means nothing) is ¡§tetrahydrogestrinone : a designer steroid with a chemical structure similar to other prohibited steroids.¡¨ So¡K.you lose again Dunes Runner.

?h since THG was not officially banned until now, maybe advil or coffee will suddenly be declared illegal, and thus, we will all be considered cheats (those of who take those substances).

Bullshit again. Those substance have been known about for a long time, and are already declared OK. (caffeine was illegal over certain amounts, but I believe that even that restriction has been eliminated). If tomorrow it is determined that they should be considered illegal, as already known substances, everyone would be alerted. THG is clearly a steroid. Though in the mind of Regina or others, it could have been considered in the ¡§gray area,¡¨ unlike coffee or advil, then she should have not taken that risk. You don¡¦t put something in your body in this day and age unless you are ABSOLUTLEY sure it is not a potentially banned substance. PERIOD. If she got bad advice, too bad for her. In today¡¦s running world, ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION. She did not use caution, she gambled and lost (and that is giving the benefit of the doubt). Refusing to take advil or drink coffee? If you want to be that safe, more power to you. But there is no reason to be worried about such ¡§drugs.¡¨ So your comparison is bad one. You lose again. That makes you¡KYup, you guessed it, a LOSER.

You comment of ¡§It's either "okay" or it isn't¡¨ is complete CRAP. Rules are rules. Advil and coffee are not banned, THG, as similar to other banned steroids, broke the rules. P E R I O D.

And what the hell does ¡§I'm interested in performance and achievement¡¨ mean??? So if someone breaks the rules to accomplish a great performance, that interests you and impresses you??? What if they cut the course at a marathon, only run 20 miles, but receive a time of 2 hours. That would impress you??? Regina broke the rules, she cheated, so she gets no respect.

¡§the objective IS to finish the race first.¡¨ Then what was all that crap about Regina being a nice person, and giving respect to her competitors and not throwing elbows??? I thought the point was to win?? If Suzy threw elbows, you should RESPECT her for trying to win ( as long as he did not illegally hit anyone. I have NEVER seen her do so).

Give up your stupid arguments. NO ONE is buying them, we are all just laughing at YOU.

I am past the point of wishing to defend Regina, but as far as the pushing incident with Sonia O'Sullivan was concerned, it was indeed Sonia who was in the wrong - and Anita Weyerman was even more wrong. That was Regina's last, best chance at gold in the World Championships.

you are an idiot. evey point you are trying to make centers around one thing: you just want competition and don't care what people use to augment that? stupid. so you would like to see something like the SNL skit the all drugs olympics? people destroying their long term health for a chemical enhanced performace? stupid. that is not what its all about. get a life and learn what sport is about.

Im just going to say this dunes...your ability for reasoning and logic is unheard of. it is one thing for someone to take an acceptable over the counter anti inflammatory, it is another thing altogether for a PROFESSIONAL athlete to take a substance that has been created to not be seen by drug tests but that falls into the category of banned substances and then achieve money and awards for the performances that come with this. Your defense of her only adds to your very long history of posting ignorant claims on this website.

And my name is dave in case you were going to attack me for being anonymous

dunes runner wrote:

She treats other runners fairly on the track and doesn't interfer with anyone's right to compete, and that's what counts.

dunes runner, you need your head examined!

Regina = cheat

Where do you see the reference to "Fair Play" in the definiton of cheat?

\Cheat\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. {Cheated}; p. pr. & vb. n.

{Cheating}.] [See {Cheat}, n., {Escheat}.]

1. To deceive and defraud; to impose upon; to trick; to

swindle.

I am subject to a tyrant, a sorcerer, that by his

cunning hath cheated me of this island. --Shak.

2. To beguile. --Sir W. Scott.

To cheat winter of its dreariness. --W. Irving.

Syn: To trick; cozen; gull; chouse; fool; outwit; circumvent; beguile; mislead; dupe; swindle; defraud; overreach; delude; hoodwink; deceive; bamboozle.

dunes runner,

I know you mentioned Radcliffe and her wanting to get Yegorova banned. This seems to be where your hatred of her stems from. If Radcliffe didn't make any fuss about Yegorova or others and just went about her business, would you still hate her? I'm assuming everything else stays constant (2:15, etc.) so you can continue to believe one way or another that she is on drugs.

Also, you seem to equate taking advil with taking EPO. So, in your view, as long as people don't interfere with others, does it not matter what they are doing? That has to be your position otherwise you would be contradicting yourself when you support Regina. I actually completely disagree with your stance on Regina, but was curious as to your thought process.

16x, thanks. :)

DMiller,

Thank you for your admiration of my reasoning and logic.

Question - What makes you think it is "okay" to take "acceptable" (and who deems them "acceptable") over the counter medications?

Obviously those medications are supposedly giving you some competitive ADVANTAGE that an "honest" (since I don't take them) competitor such as myself would not have.

So does that make you a drug cheat, Dave?

Really the whole drug thing is ridiculous.

Look in any hospital and you can see how well they've worked for the healthy people who took them and now are dying from their use.

I HAVE KNOWN A NUMBER OF THESE PEOPLE -- NOW DEAD.

A drug cheat is someone who uses drugs to interfere with someone else's opportunity to complete.

Regina has not done that.

Other runners do this and are not being held accountable.

It's a double and misguided standard.

Regina has accomplished much and is an outstanding role model.

Dunes

First I have to say that I orginally didn't enter this thread because I thought your post was satire/humor. Evidently not.

But I must correct on one specific point: your belief that if a drug is not specifically named on a list of banned substances, that means it is not banned. This is incorrect.

It is crystal clear from the wording of all of the drug policy documents that I have ever seen that chemical entities with similar structures to banned substances are also banned.

For example, the UCI (Union Cyclisme Internationale) regs list substances by general class and then include the following rider "Compounds chemically of pharmacologically related to the products mentioned ...above". See

http://www.uci.ch/english/about/rules/ch14_dopage_liste_20020501.pdf

for the original text.

Another example from USADA "the term 'and related substances' describes drugs having pharmacological action(s) and/or chemical structures similar to a prohibited substance". See

http://www.usantidoping.org/files/USADA_Guide.pdf

for the full text.

The explicit purpose of this wording is to prevent chemist simply changing one or two atoms in a stimulant molecule in order to avoid the letter of the law.

And it makes it abundantly clear to athletes that they cannot sidestep the regs with substances such as THG which, by such subtle structural changes, aim to avoid the test but still provide the desired effect.

AD

Dunes Runner,

Your logic has left me speechless (you'll take that one way, and the rest of us will get a good laugh out of it).

Oh yeah... thanks for raising the issue of race; that's added a lot to the discussion.